Democrats need to address the "Working Class" problem and get over the "Isms"

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Yes, I know, I know, "ism" and "ist" and "ic" and all other manner of identity scapegoats, but the latest election has enshrined a very clear and very obvious political divide: People don't give a single shit about anything other than their pocketbooks. Poor people are sick and tired of being told "You're not poor, you're perfectly fine, better than you've ever been! Just look at the stock market!" Most Americans have little if anything to do with Wall Street.

Of course, you'll get the obvious reactionaries of "Racism!" "Sexism!" "Transphobic!" but at the end of the day, none of that mattered; The price of eggs mattered. Because people vote their wallets, as they have since the inception of America: See the Tea Party. That may upset the Identitypheliacs, but that's the truth. It's an uncomfortable truth, but the simple fact is that those who center their entire political philosophy around "Social identity" are financially comfortable enough not to worry about the practical economy. It's a simple matter of Mazlow's Hierarchy.

These overly-comfortable people are willing to say "But the economy is perfect!" while people starve. They will flat out say to the poverty stricken, to their faces, "You poor people are wrong, the GDP is the best its ever been, you're not starving!" They're not lying but they're omitting objective truths.

We need to stop this incessant "You're just stupid because you're poor, racist, sexist fuckwits" drumbeat and begin to address problems faced by real, tangible Americans or we run the risk of losing the largest voting bloc, the working class (Black, white and Latino) for decades.


Quit the cannibalizing. Quit the victim blaming and infighting. We need to start listening to the largest part of America; Minimum wage workers, of all skin colors.

All of us need to better and to give up on our faux elitism.

(I'm fairly certain this post will be hidden, but it has to be said, no matter how few genuine Democrats see it before it gets blapped. On the off chance it doesn't, let's start winning election and speak to the people crying out for help.)


Won't be replying for a few days as I'm going in for a necessary arm surgery, paying out of pocket since my insurance denied me. Clarifying in case anyone wants to give hell for "Posting and running".

[Scrivener7]

1. Yes, racism and sexism DID matter. If Kamala were a middle-aged

straight white protestant man, she would have won.

Racism and sexism decided this election.

[jalan48]

17. So the race was lost as soon as Biden stepped down and she became the candidate?

[paleotn]

31. Biden is a straight, white man.

Protestant hasn't mattered since JFK. Just look at SCOTUS. It's like a college of fucking Cardinals. No, he polled abysmally. Harris didn't change that much. Turns out the polls many here poo pooed, me included, weren't wrong after all. But why did they poll so badly given policies that actually brought down inflation and helped average people? Honestly, I was with you a week ago. But after much thought, I don't think that's the whole issue. Certainly not the root problem.

Granted, being a minority female in a neanderthal country didn't help. But that's not the whole story. If you convince people you care and can help their wallets, many will look past all that. Root problem is, we're not convincing them. Trump is. As completely stupid as that sounds on its face, that's where we are.

Didn't use to be like that. I remember when Democrats were synonymous with the working class. With the masses. Repukes were the inverse. It was true, accurate, but somehow we lost that. Fux News is one cause, but still, we ceded it to the Repukes without a fight. Now, even though our policies STILL actually help average people no matter their demographic, we look like a bunch of college professors. Unconvincing. While I personally don't have a problem with that, the average Joe Schmo apparently does. If we can convince them we will help on kitchen table issues, if we have the average person's back, I think the rest of the bullshit Fux News, et. al. spews will pale in comparison in their minds.

In short, we don't message to the masses worth a shit. Haven't in ages.

[travelingthrulife]

97. So we should begin to lie to them like Trump did?

That's the message you guys are putting out.

[viva la]

101. That's it. It's impossible to win against a rich white man who lies about everything, promises everything,

and gets 50% of the voters to ignore the lying.

No 'working class' appeals will overcome that. Democrats are the party that supports policies that help the working class, and Trump lies to the working class. Apparently some in the working class (that is, the WHITE working class) prefer the lies.

[yardwork]

169. That's the message I got from it.

I watched Harris's campaign and I didn't see any college professors on stage with her. I didn't see any elitest, out of touch talk.

What I DID see was a campaign built on reasonable plans that might actually work, compared to Trump's carnival barker act.

So what exactly are we supposed to do differently? Nominate a carnival barker who bellows lies?

[ShazzieB]

186. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do differently, either! o/

I just don't think "lie" is what was meant.

But yeah, I'm definitely tired of all the "how Democrats did it wrong" commentary that ignores all the other factors involved.

[paleotn]

126. Not hardly. Take credit where credit is due. There's a hell of a lot of credit we're due in that regard.

Tell them, in no uncertain terms, who their friends actually are and who they aren't. Back it up with facts. Be bold. Be aggressive. Be inflammatory. We use to do that...a lot. I'm old enough to remember. It was still working in the 90's, 2 decades after Repukes went all "Southern Strategy." For some strange reason, we lost our roots and went "cerebral". I don't mind it but most common folks don't get it and are thus easily lead away by shiny, culture war bullshit.

Other than Bernie Sanders, who among those leading the Dem caucus is pounding away on the fact that, for all practical purposes, working class wages have been stagnant since Ford? Top earners have seen significant income growth, and in a capitalistic society, that's fine, as long as that growth applies to everyone. It's not and we don't talk about that nearly enough. Maybe Dems are afraid to piss off some of their high income donors? Who knows. Fact is, we're pathetic in that regard compared to our political ancestors. Hell, we're pathetic compared to Repukes and for them it's a complete lie.

[Akakoji]

133. Well is capitalism

that equally rewards everyone capitalism? Pretty sure that’s why Bernie calls himself a socialist. Our problem is that we’ve let Republicans define that word in a very negative way. Soviet or Chinese socialism is indeed an awful oppressive and unjust system. But we need to reclaim the shared rewards system of work in a positive manner. Because what people heard from our side was not that people Tha worked the most got rewarded the most, but that everyone regardless of their efforts would be taken care of. Most Americans actually don’t believe in that. They want to decide themselves what the ground rules are, and who receives what. In a capitalist society volunteerism and donating to causes and people creates community, society, and agency to those that do these things.

[Scrivener7]

103. Look at the numbers!!! It was race and gender!!! That is the WHOLE story!!!

They fed us this "economic insecurity" line last time trump won. And we twisted ourselves in knots over it. And then trump trashed the economy and they continued to be just fine with him.

Please tell me people aren't going to buy that again.

Yes. I have always said our messaging was crap. And we can definitely improve it. But that's not what lost the election. What lost the election was that we failed to recognize the racism and sexism among Democrats and people we consider Democratic allies.

It wasn't economic insecurity then, and it isn't now.

[paleotn]

115. No, actually, we didn't twist ourselves into knots over it.

We kept on keeping on. Same old stuff. Do the hard work but take no credit for it. No victory laps and certainly no messaging to that effect. It didn't work in 2016. It didn't work in 2024. Covid was the wildcard in 2020.

[kelly1mm]

136. Then we made a mistake nominating VP Harris? And from here on only EITHER non-white OR

non male (but never both) should be our nominee? How about just to be sure we play it safe and only nominate white males?

That seems to be the logical outcome of 'it was racism and misogyny', no?

[Scrivener7]

141. Yes. It is. And we have been beaten over the head twice now with that fact.

Can you imagine more qualified candidates than Hillary and Kamala? I can't. And they lost. They simply weren't able to get the same numbers of Democratic votes that Joe did. Can you guess why? Because WITHIN OUR PARTY and within our ally groups there are racists and sexists. I don't like it. You don't like it. But it is a fact. The numbers don't lie.

I dream of seeing a woman inaugurated before I die. But have to put that dream aside. Because if we are ever able to have another election, I can't have my heart broken like I did when we ran those two amazing women against the stupider version of Jabba the Hutt.

For at least the foreseeable future, we need to run middle-aged, white, straight, protestant males.

[kelly1mm]

142. Well that hits like a 2x4! Maybe (probably?) true though. I fear the first woman in the WH will be a R. nt

[Scrivener7]

145. Oh, God. You might be right. And look at that field of possibilities. Gabbard, the Russian asset,

or Nicki Haley, the nonentity. Bobo, and Empty Green. Terrifying.

[kelly1mm]

146. Laura Trump, the next Senator from FL and (potential) future 1st woman President? She has the name ... nt

[Scrivener7]

148. I'm nauseous.

[DemonGoddess]

193. THIS!!!! n/t

[intheflow]

181. Agreed "economic insecurity" is bs.

But I’m… hopeful? Doesn’t seem like the right word but should things like the inane cuts to social security based on the first or last digit of social security numbers actually go through A LOT of Republicans who rely on it for retirement or disability will find out what real economic insecurity means.

[ShazzieB]

187. I don't disagree.

I hate it, but I don't disagree.

[Scrivener7]

190. I do too. It's heartbreaking.

[JI7]

125. Biden beat Trump. This time aging affected how he came across

but a younger Joe Biden that ran as good as Kamala did would have won.

[Scrivener7]

182. By a damn landslide.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

33. No it didn't. Many know it but just don't want to accept it, because accepting it admits failure. n/t

[ShazzieB]

188. Replying late, but just have to say I definitely agree!

[yaesu]

2. I'm seeing a lot about messaging and I get that. A Bernie type of candidate may have wiped the floor with tRump

but if voters aren't smart enough to understand that fucking toenail fungus is better than a rapist, fascist russian agent there is no hope no matter what or who is messaging.

[paleotn]

42. I get it. Some of our founders got it too.

They thought expanded suffrage, such as it was back then, was suicide for the same reasons you bring up. The Republic was doomed to eventually fall to some populist megalomaniac who appealed to the morons on the left tail. They weren't wrong, but that's the system we've got. Bernie is my Senator. Though I don't agree with everything he advocates, I do greatly appreciate his fire and ability to message. He's far better at that on a bad day than my other Senator, Peter Welch. He messages in a way that cuts through the bullshit issues Fux News deals in. Cut some of the socialist stuff and refocus it on core, economic issues, along with true freedom, i.e. reproductive freedom for one, and I think you've got a message that will get through to even the dumb ones. Worked for Andy Beshear in an incredibly red state.

[DSandra]

48. Messaging means nothing if voters don't feel like the Democrats have done enough for them...

Many of the hispanics that voted for Trump felt like the Democrats let them down. People are buying into cynical views of Democrats, as only using them to get votes without delivering. It also doesn't help that Democrats take money from big corporations / billionaires.

[Keepthesoulalive]

3. The republicans are all about isms

Please tell me what the republicans have done for the working class.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

7. Reps have ACKNOWLEDGED them in a way Dems didn't.

Dems insisted, to the faces of those struggling the most, that they were just wrong. "You're wrong, you may be poor but the economy is better than it has ever been."

Reps said "You're poor, we acknowledge that, we'll help you".

Granted, the Reps were lying outright, Harris was our best chance, but they ACKNOWLEDGED the poor. Dems dismissed them. And that doomed us.

[Keepthesoulalive]

35. They are eating the cats and dogs, Puerto Rico is a garbage island.

Don’t say gay , don’t teach black history because white children will feel bad and on and on.
Joe Biden stood with the auto workers , trump demeaned them, Biden tried to forgive student loans and the republican appointed judges put a stop to most of it. The economy is not the greatest because of inflation and we’re all feeling it. But putting Tariffs on foreign goods will make it a hell of a lot worse. I am not a 1 issue voter , I care enough about my country to not put a group of people who
Should not be allowed to run a compost heap in charge of the economy ,the military, social programs, infrastructure and the common good. They are not equipped to fix our problems so what is this they understand the working class , they don’t understand anything and they don’t give a damn about you you are just a useful tool.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

39. It's almost like our messaging didn't reach the voters! Glad we agree!

Rep messaging is simple; "Dems think you're a stupid rube". Hell, look at this thread! Got a bunch of people saying "You're a stupid, ignorant, uneducated, uncultured rube if you voted for trump!"

The Reps know what they're doing. They're not incompetent; up until Trump they were career politicians. Their entire job was inciting people to vote for them. But Trump forced their hands and they had to go extremist, because if they didn't, they were left on the outs.

And here we are, still insisting that "If you vote Rep, you're an 'Ism!'" Doesn't matter what 'Ism", you just are because you vote Trump. You're Garbage. You're Deplorable. You're unworthy of respect, dignity or significance.


Reps took that and ran with it. And we gave them every fuggin' bullet to fire at us. And now that we've reaped what we have sown, we're infighting.

We. Were. Wrong. And we have to be better. We need to be better.

[Keepthesoulalive]

53. No we don't agree

The republicans haven’t done anything for anyone but the rich. Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are dead last in everything but they keep voting for republicans. I wonder why? Scratch the bullshit about economics and the answer is very clear.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

56. Considering those states are some of the highest concentrations of Black Americans, I wonder what you mean. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

61. Look at the Demos

I'm not doing your research for you.

What is the ratio?

[Tadpole Raisin]

65. It's a very good question. If people think letting magats suffer after voting for

TSF so that they will finally abandon republicans and vote for democrats, why hasn’t that happened in southern states?

They are dead last in so many economic measurements - education, teenage pregnancy, death, etc., - ruled by republicans for decades (deep red), yet continue to vote republican.

I’m not claiming I know but answering that question could provide a path.

[Mariana]

165. "... why hasn't that happened in southern states?"

Religion, mostly.

[Keepthesoulalive]

78. Gerrymandering and voter suppression

There was Alabama town that elected a black mayor and the county wouldn’t seat him. Also black population of Alabama is approximately 27% . You’re reaching .

[kacekwl]

62. I seem to recall hearing many times

Harris and Waltz speeches and debates etc. that yes the economy is doing well post pandemic But we still have a lot to do. People are hurting and prices are high and we have a plan for that. Instead they chose to listen to "I'm going to lower energy prices by half" or everything was cheaper when I was president. How does praising Musk for his great handling of union workers or his utter hatred for overtime pay. The man has done absolutely nothing for "working class people" and I dare you to show me one.

[OhioTim]

114. Harris Had Plans

for the poor. Trump didn't. Her problem was she wasn't a white man.

[DSandra]

49. Manipulate them to get votes, but they are good in being con artists...

and convincing people that Democrats have let them down.

[Keepthesoulalive]

59. It is easy to manipulate someone

When they are selfish and mean spirited, when they don’t want to think and learn . Why would anyone
Send Marjorie green and Lauren Bobert to congress. They are okay with disgraceful behavior and a boat load of crazy.

[uponit7771]

91. Yep, MAGA framing is as if PoC aren't mostly "working class" ... M$M repeats it ad nauseum

[krkaufman]

123. Thread is typical product of brainwashing

Republicans target some group; Democrats defend.group under attack; Republicans say Democrats only care about identify politics.

[jalan48]

4. I agree. Bernie has been saying this for awhile, but it's not a message favored by the wealth class.

Focusing on identity works better for them.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

9. Agreed. "Identity" is a losing message, period. We're losing the AA and Latino vote to economic extremists. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

15. What African American vote?

The #92Percent of black women, many in the working class who voted, knocked on doors, did post cards, etc etc.?

You need to start with white women. They didn't listen to black women and here we are.

They consistently vote to punish black women. Figure them out and check back in after the 2026 midterms.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

18. 92% of less than 10% of the American voting populace isn't enough. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

25. Exactly

So go get your white women and get them to stop punching down at black women.

Yeah - I'm blaming them. They voted overwhelmingly for rapists and convicts - you need to fix that group. Its going to be an uphill battle.

Good luck with that.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

29. I do agree with that. So how do we reach them?

My mom and grandmother, lifelong Dems, voted for Trump not once but TWICE because they're hurting economically. They don't give a fuck about the "Isms" or the "ists", so why should we? Yes, the companies in charge of prices were gouging the average consumer, but the voters know that. They want the government to step in and intervene, but neither party does.

I know, "Bothsiderism" but we have a unique opportunity to win back the working class and those who have been screwed by predatory pricing, yet we continually fail to do so, majority or not.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. That's on you

Black women have carried this weight for too long.

Like I said - don't ask us for shit the next four years. We've got extended families and circles of friends to take care of.


We are here because our grandmothers survived the Jim Crow dystopia. We know how to survive. Even when white women punch down at us.

[kacekwl]

79. Messaging ? Your think republican

messaging was better. It was all lies all hatred all insulting. Sorry, if you think Democratic messaging was bad it's because you were not listening or you believed the lies. No ism here just gullibility or you agree the Republicans platform there is no other reason to vote trump.

[JustAnotherGen]

81. I like how this guy

Gave the GOP a pass for leaning into white resentment, and making shit up about transgender people, Latinos, and immigrants.

kacekwl - It's almost like the GOP can do nothing wrong.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

111. Didn't apparently try to convince his mom and grandma that they were voting for a racist transphobe either...

Guess its okay when its women like me getting affected by their choices and condescension.

[krkaufman]

124. Yep

OP wholly ignores that “identity politics” is driven by the GOP and Right Wing,.

[Keepthesoulalive]

135. What did he do for them?

The democrats and John McCain passed Obamacare. The republicans want to overturn it.
The democrats fought to increase the minimum wage, What have the republicans done for the poor and working class someone please give me a list ? I am ready to learn .

[yardwork]

167. I'm genuinely confused by your message.

Kamala Harris didn't talk about "isms" or "ists" in her campaign. I watched her speeches and don't recall a single mention of racism or sexism or anything like that. I don't think she ever said the word "woke."

Trump accused Harris of those things. He dredged up an old video interview of Harris talking about prisoners having rights to gender-affirming care. Who knows when that interview took place. It wasn't part of her campaign.

Harris ran a campaign full of plans to help people. Her plans were reality-based. Trump ran a campaign full of blatant lies and absurd promises he can't possibly fulfill. He blamed everybody else for the economy except the real culprits - the Republicans.

People believe what they want to believe.

[Bettie]

172. Here's a hint:

they voted for him because they love the racism and hatred he spews. They enjoy it when he explicitly threatens to harm people who aren't them.

Or, their preacher tells them to vote for him.

Those are generally the two reasons, hate and religion.

I'm related to and live among a lot of these people. It's racism and hate dressed up as religion.

[JT45242]

5. Wrong dead wrong...

They either voted racism or sexism...likely.

Or their misinformed, uneducated PERCEPTION of the economy.

Either way Americans voted for a rapist, felon. Sexist, piece of crap who lost manufacturing jobs and hurt farmers and other businesses with trade wars....

It's either the racism and sexism or the stupidity.

It was not the economy. We have the strongest economy in the world not that you would know that from the billionaire controlled main stream media, Russian controlled social media either thru bots or apartheid Clyde.

They voted for hate and lies.
This was not what the Democrats did wrong moment.

This is a what the fuck is wrong with our country moment

[soandso]

21. "Or their misinformed, uneducated PERCEPTION of the economy"

Wow.

I think OP can rest their case, now.

Ever hear the term tone deaf?

[JustAnotherGen]

67. Uneducated isn't wrong

Most of them can't spell moron correctly.

[Lucky Luciano]

85. But they still have the right to vote...so...they will go with the one who speaks like they do.

Fuckface knows his audience. He keeps his speeches at a fourth grade level.

[JT45242]

153. Perception is reality...marshall mcluhan

Not tone deaf.

Unemployment at historic lows.

Real wages up.

Middle class healthier economically than during trump years.

But people remember eggs were really expensive for three months and see pictures of eggs with high prices. Of course, MSM and social media don't mention the culling of millions of chickens because of avian fly.

MSM did not push the VP of Kroger admitting to a congressional committee that prices were higher and remained high longer than needed to account for supply chain issues.

The Republicans and their billionaire overlords control the medium and the message.

But if you saw the ads that were running in Iowa and heard what was spewing you would see the racism. They ran ads that said Kamala let in 50 million illegal immigrants... seriously over one million a month for the four year term. And there were no repercussions for those lies.

If the voters weren't racist and uneducated they would have heard "you weren't supposed to fact check me" and think, if you are worried about fact checking, then you must be lying.

It started with right wing radio and the end of the fairness doctrine.

[DSandra]

51. As someone who is in the bottom 80%, people saying that the economy is great when its not for them...

and for the people around them is quite patronizing and out of touch. The economy has split, into being good for the top 20% and terrible for the bottom 80%, with it being extremely hard to impossible to live. So if you are part of the top 20%, you will not understand the plight of the bottom 80% unless you went out of your way to try to understand them.

[JT45242]

164. The biggest economic gains were in the bottom half...

That's a fact.

The spew that only the top 20% benefitted was a lie.

[Sunsky]

75. Exactly

Also, some of us aren't privileged enough to just will away the isms, ics etc. which are our daily lived experiences. I'm happy we get to have a seat at the table through the Democratic party and not just tokenized.

[krkaufman]

130. "It's the stupid, stupid."

People want to say that the economy drove the election result, but the result doesn’t make rational sense from any economic perspective. “Trump’s economy” prior to COVID was just the Obama/Biden recovery extended, which Trump had slowed through his tariffs; we suffered greater economic and human loss during COVID due to Trump’s mishandling of the pandemic; post-pandemic, America’s economy is the envy of the world; as for higher prices, yep, those hurt … but inflation has been brought under control without handicapping the economic recovery and, most importantly, Trump’s promised policies (tariffs, mass deportation, …) are projected to boost inflation rather than curb it.

It wan’t the economy but the overwhelming stupidity of voters unable or unwilling to pay even the merest attention to unissued and policies. (Putting aside those otherwise motivated.)

[Skittles]

6. tell me exactly how repukes are helping the working class

be specific

[Shermann]

13. Trump doubled the standard deduction, increased the Child Tax Credit, and expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit

Now, Trump has proposed eliminating income tax on overtime pay.

Harris proposed the same thing shortly after but was beaten to the punch.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

14. Exactly. Even if he's lying, he's telling people what they want to hear. n/t

[Skittles]

19. Trump mishandled covid and crashed the fucking economy

DON'T PEOPLE FUCKING REMEMBER ANYTHING?

[Takket]

34. nope. any other questions?

[Shermann]

46. He seems to have been given a pass on the pandemic.

So now he can point to those tax breaks, and it resonates with lower income Americans.

I'm not a fan, but you asked a question that can be answered objectively.

[Skittles]

54. HE RODE ON OBAMA'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS

then when faced with an ACTUAL ISSUE he FUCKING FAILED BIGTIME

[krkaufman]

132. I do blame Dems and the media ...

… for years of allowing Trump to claim credit for the Obama/Biden recovery. Obama made a passing comment about it, but he and others should have been out in the media for years shaming Trump for taking credit for walking into Obama’s booming economy.

Link to tweet

[paleotn]

55. Yes, doubled the standard deduction, but due to shifts in the tax brackets....

it really helped no one. Only the wealthy, who could meet the increased itemization threshold, benefited. A shell game. In fact, the changes in itemizing fucked just about everyone in places with state income taxes. The real intent was to punish higher state tax, blue states. The Child Tax Credit increase was a Covid era program initiated by Dems in the American Rescue Plan. Repukes lost their minds over it, but Dems pushed it through. Trump had no real choice but to sign it given the economic abyss we faced.

There....got your history accurate.

Eliminating income taxes on overtime would have minuscule impact on people's actual tax burden. If she had advocating eliminating the Trump tax cuts and rejiggering the tax brackets as Obama advocated, THAT would have a significant impact for working families. But, alas, we didn't go there.

[Shermann]

58. You got the increased itemization threshold backwards

The wealthy who met the increased itemization threshold would see no benefit from the doubled standard deduction. The main beneficiaries were tax filers with deductions below that threshold (i.e. lower income filers).

[paleotn]

63. The tax brackets changed, eliminating most of that benefit of an increased standard deduction.

People were all giddy they got an extra $10 in their take home. Whoop dee doo!. The rich made out like bandits. Don't fall for Repuke talking points. They're bullshit.

[Shermann]

64. I do my own taxes and don't share your view. nt

[paleotn]

66. I do mine and do share my view.

[Shermann]

80. Ok I guess we're going there.

A married couple's standard deduction in 2017 was $6500, which avoids $1300 in federal taxes when taken. In 2018, this tax reduction increased to $2500. An additional $1200 refund isn't "whoop dee doo" for a working-class family. This takes into account the tax bracket changes you are concerned with.

[paleotn]

110. You're only getting part of the picture. You forgot about personal and dependent exemptions.

and their impact on your math. In 2017, pre Trump tax "cut", a family of 4, married filing jointly, got a 12,700 standard deduction and 16,200 in personal exemptions (4 x 4,050). 28,900 in total deductions.

Post Trump tax "cut", their standard deduction increased to 24,000 but personal / dependent exemptions were suspended until 2025. Apologies, but 28,900 is bigger than 24,000.

Changes in tax brackets lightened the load for some, increased it for others. Add the SALT deduction caps and no one in the working class demo can get anywhere near the 24,000 standard deduction hurdle to help lighten their load. Those in higher tax blue states were particularly impacted by the caps on state tax deductions. That was by design.

In short, it's only the very wealth who benefited significantly. Some in the low to middle income brackets got a little back, some had to pay more. A mixed bag, but certainly NOT a windfall for anyone who, by anyone's standards, isn't wealthy.

[Shermann]

120. You smuggled two dependents into the equation

What about those TCJA child tax credits?

I never claimed that the TCJA benefitted ALL working-class families, that has already been demonstrated not to be true. The net benefit appears to be mixed but Republicans have done something they can point to.

[paleotn]

127. They're undocumented. Let it slide.

[Shermann]

159. OK I reran the 2017 numbers from my original example

A married couple's standard deduction plus personal exemptions in 2017 was $20,800, which avoids $2,080 in federal taxes when taken. This is the most conservative estimate using the 10% bracket but could actually be higher if you apply to the marginal rate.

In 2018, this tax reduction increased to $2500. So, the corrected savings is $420. This is still significant enough for a low or middle income couple to notice and remember, that's all. Democrats will need a better answer than saying this was merely a nothingburger.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. He fucked the State Income Tax States

In NJ - in my Borough - 89% of our property taxes we collect go to our stellar school system.

Constituents of mine - saved 10 years to buy their home. Make $113K a year as a Borough Public Works employee and County Daycare worker. Was able to give our working class a little break so their property taxes will only top out at approx 8K.

The SALT Cap implemented in the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs scam hurt that working class family significantly.

Oh but JAG! They are rich.

Only if they live in Mississippi.

See they are only allowed to deduct 10K. So what about their state income tax?

But JAG! They are rich!

Dear Readers - the SALT Cap was punishment for those who chose Home Rule instead of going to Fed Gov with their hands out. It was designed to make that working class family of four pay property taxes twice.

But JAG! They're rich!!!!!

Wait until those sons of bitches cut the Department of Education. I suspect our kids in my district and New Jersey will be just fine.

We'll be fine.

But I relish the rich family of four in Mississippi having to actually pay the 8K a year to educate their kids in addition to
Public Works.

See - they are RICH! Let them eat cake. They better eat that shit up.

[Shermann]

92. Yes, families in high-tax states were the losers there. nt

[kacekwl]

121. You know how

trump and in turn employers feel about overtime. Can't tax what you won't get.

[paleotn]

45. Actuality doesn't matter. Perception trumps reality, pardon the pun.

It's perceptions we need to change. Reality we've got.

[Botany]

8. The price of eggs mattered. Pure b.s. and a cover story for stolen election. Just my thought.

BTW inflation is way way down but the price of eggs is up because we have had a big
outbreak of Avian Flu and we are down something like 30 million birds and you just can’t
move chickens right back into their barns or farms until they are cleaned back up.

[SharonClark]

11. You seem to have bought into Republican

talking points about the Democrats.

Democrats are the only party that has tried to come up with policy that will help low income and middle-class income workers.

What specific policies would you like the Democratic Party to advance that you think would solve the problems of minimum wage workers?

[JustAnotherGen]

12. The Democratic Candidates

Didn't play those cards - The Maggot and Eyeliner Boy did. The Magats supporting those two did.

Wasn't it Trump who said "She isn't even black."

VP Harris did not react.

Also - its your play. Black Women are handing this all over to you. We've done the hard work, y'all didn't listen to us . . .

Do what you must.

Don't ask black women for shit the next four years.I'm not the only one. We have to take care of our family and circles now. My Grand mama lived through Jim Crow the first 67 years of her life . . Survival is in my blood.

[Nimble_Idea]

16. lmao tldr

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. So much advice, so many simple answers...nt

[Hellbound Hellhound]

24. You're right. The needed answers are incredibly simple. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

87. Then why are you upthread

Asking me to help you reach your own mom?

[Fiendish Thingy]

107. Of course they might be simple answers to the wrong questions.

And the next time around, the questions might change completely.

In hindsight, it’s quite easy to appear to know all the answers- who could prove you wrong?

[spudspud]

22. Don't worry guys. Next time new messaging: "Free Brawndo for all. Brawndo has electrolytes! It's got what plants crave!"

If we have another election, we just need to dumb down the messaging "for the working class." It wasn't about supporting unions, raising minimum wage, giving tax credits for struggling families with kids, giving increased first time home buyer assistance, or establiishing an anti-grocery price gouging agency/board. Those things apparently didn't "speak" to the working class to let them know Dems wanted to help them. It wasn't overwhelmingly racism and misogyny (again) that cost us this election. The narrative (and excuse): it was EcOnOmic AnxiEty. This time with the fig leaf of "Mah egg PriCez!!".

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Thank you

I was voting against my economic interests in this election - as I have since I turned 31 (20 year trust fund) because I align with the party on civil rights and liberties.

[bigtree]

23. what about black working class voters who are reliably Democratic?

...I'm tired of mollycoddling people who are no worse off than the rest of us.

Especially those blaming the POTUS for egg prices. What ignorant putzes.

People need to stop telling me I need to see tham as something more than fascist-supporting, racist supporting, women-hating, LGBT-hating morons, when that's nearly all they talk about when they're not coveing their hate with the phoney issues they fall back on.

Shame them, No one should be making excuses for what they just did to the nation, no matter what someone has said or done about the working class (and republicans have done nothing for the working class for decades except try and advantage their employers against their interests and livelihoods).

[Hellbound Hellhound]

32. What about 'em? Their numbers are irrelevant and even if they weren't, Trump's eating into them.

We're LOSING. We're losing Blacks. We're losing Latinos. We're losing Women. We're losing Men.

At what point do you decide "Hey, maybe losing constantly isn't so bloody good!" and embrace the "Working Class" as an entity as important as any other?

[bigtree]

44. 'Their numbers are irrelevant'

...said no black working class American supporting Democrats.

What offensive twaddle.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

50. "Offensive" if you refuse to consider raw numbers and basic math.

Those "Black working class American" who will vote Dem will do so en masse. The Republics have NOWHERE TO GO BUT UP. Social Media algorithms have spiked the "Right" in young AA men. Republicans lost 90% of the male Black vote for years, so they can say and do whatever they want to try to attract them, and in this election they've done just that. Not in overly significant numbers, but enough raw bodies that if they hadn't swapped to Republican, we would have carried the election.

"Offensive" my arse, we need to do better. Our messaging is garbage and we need to improve.

[bigtree]

70. you didn't talk numbers

...you said they're irrelevant, which is offensive as it is wrong.

All voting groups in the party were lacking in support in this election, in the same proportion that black voters were lacking in attendance.

Black voters overwhelmingly supported Kamala Harris, and have a disproportionate number in their communities to white voters who identify as 'working class.' So I don't know how you succeed in achieving any positive election result for Democrats by deeming them irrelevant.

All of this boasting about republican potential while demeaning the import of black voters is making my skin crawl.

Black voters chose Biden by almost 10% more than showed for Kamala Harris in this race, but she still pulled in a proportionate number of the smaller number of Dem voters showing up in this race, overall.

I'd suspect you'd find most of those black voters are like me, who have never had the luxury of opting out of a binary choice between republicans' racist party and our diverse one.

There's one party representing working class voters, and another working against those interests. One party supporting minority Americans and the other working and advocating against us.

Pretending this is something other than racism and hatred of other Americans isn't something you'll find black voters like me representing as some imperative to discover some other reason why.

I personally find all of the handwringing over what is actually bunch of white working class Trump supporters, nothing short of a surrender to pure bullshit from Trumpers looking to use phony issues and excuses to cover for their racism and antipathies to Americans who don't look like and think like them.

Just because republicans claim Democrats don't support the working class, or claim the president controls the price of eggs, doesn't mean we need to cater to that mental illness and gaslighting.

[Hekate]

118. What he says about women also makes my skin crawl. What a load of magagop.

“All of this boasting about republican potential while demeaning the import of black voters is making my skin crawl.”

[travelingthrulife]

86. You didn't listen to the messaging. It was all about working class needs.

But you would rather bitch about Democrats when the issue is massive propaganda advanced by the GOP and Russia.

[uponit7771]

99. "We're losing Blacks" This is false on its face, same number of blacks voted for Harris this time than last time ...

... why spread this shit?

thx in advance

[SoFlaBro]

158. Fucking Kanye West puts on a stupid fucking MAGA hat and they claim blacks are moving toward fucking MAGA.

[Shermann]

161. 92% of Black voters supported Biden, but only 86% backed Harris

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/78-black-mens-support-pollsters-say-done-better-rcna178899

[standingtall]

177. That is false or misleading Biden did not get 92% of the Black vote He got 87%

He might have gotten 92% of Black women. If you read the article you linked you we see it says Biden got 80% of Black male voters. So if Black males and Black females were roughly 50/50 if Biden would've gotten 100% of the Black women that would only equal 90% of the total Black vote. That same exit poll also shows Harris doing only 1 point worse then Biden in 2020 and Trump getting exactly the same amount of Black support 12% he got in 2020. Which suggest the extra 1 point went to 3rd party candidates.

Obama might of gotten 92% of the Black vote in 2008, but other than that the 86% Harris got is right around the historic averages Democrats have gotten at least sense post Nixon and maybe a little better. So to use this data to suggest Democrats are losing Black support in any meaningful way is a stretch.

[uponit7771]

184. THANK YOU!!!

[uponit7771]

183. Please quote your claim from the article, I could not find it after text search and reading it

[Hekate]

72. Thank you Bigtree. I am about beside myself over this wretched thread....

People have literally died for the rights now being stripped away, and some think those issues should be tossed back to “the local level” (wtf States Rights? ) so the Democratic Party can concentrate on “economics” ?

Speaking as a woman, if my mother had died while bleeding out during her first spectacular miscarriage, my brother and I would have been orphaned as toddlers, and what kind of economic impact would that have had on our blue collar lunch pail carrying father?
I’m gonna do this because it hurts less

[uponit7771]

98. This !!! Winger messaging permiating DU is crazy

[Hekate]

116. Push back hard

[uponit7771]

96. right !!

[ibegurpard]

27. Nothing you say makes any difference

If we can't get eyeballs on our message... whatever that message is.

[Paladin]

28. I got your "faux elitism."

If I want brain-dead trashing of Democrats, I'll just look at the NY Times opinion section, on any given day.

[PeaceWave]

30. Sadly, I doubt that blue collar workers will get it until they've all lost their unions.

It's a strange dynamic that has been building over the last couple of decades - union workers going Republican. Nothing will wake up these folks short of them getting what the GOP wants for them - elimination of all their unions. Perhaps these union workers will rationalize that result by claiming victory in the deportation of millions of Hispanic workers deemed to be rivals in the trades. But, guess what...these union guys have got more than just those immigrants to contend with. Thanks to Home Depot (a Republican owned company) I don't need a union plumber or a union electrician to repair my faucet or swap out my light fixture. I've got a place to get all my supplies. I've got tools. And - despite being a white collar worker - I've actually got some trade skills.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

36. Most blue collar workers don't have unions.

Likewise, most of them are outright suppressed. Established unions are vulnerable to Republican propaganda, and those who aren't part of unions are stifled by employers, instead convinced unions are predatory leeches. My own company, whom hires a TON of undocumented immigrants, goes way out of their way to stifle union efforts with no resistance. And they've been union free for forty years.

Just saying, "Union" isn't what it used to mean. I agree with you and support unions unilaterally, but "Union" has become poison in any industry.

[PeaceWave]

37. So, are you saying these workers would prefer to have no benefits? The GOP can arrange that.

[JustAnotherGen]

89. Why don't you

Turn in your employer?

[dalton99a]

38. Democrats should focus on economic issues and keep cultural issues at local level

especially unpopular ones

[Hellbound Hellhound]

41. 100% agreed. n/t

[Hekate]

47. Enumerate which ones you mean. Women's reproductive rights and care? Racism? All that?

Just handle all that stuff at a local level?

American men, women, and children have literally died when their rights as citizens and human beings were denied them. Lynching used to be a “local issue” too. Allowing men to beat their wives and their children bloody used to be considered a private matter.

Please reconsider the implications of your words. The person you replied to is wrong.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

52. Abortions wasn't important to 70-80% of people; We focused on shit people didn't care about.

Less than 2% of women in America have had abortions. Assuming even 75% in our favor, 1.5% edge means jack shit in terms of voting numbers.

[Hekate]

73. THE HELL YOU SAY

Speaking as a woman, if my mother had died while bleeding out during her first spectacular miscarriage, my brother and I would have been orphaned as toddlers, and what kind of economic impact would that have had on our blue collar lunch pail carrying father?

[JustAnotherGen]

90. Boom!

[Hekate]

93. Thanks. I CAN'T BELIEVE I STILL HAVE TO PROTEST THIS SHIT

[JustAnotherGen]

139. This person thinks

Thinks only 2% of the population have had an abortion!

Which abortion on the hospital bill would he like me to discuss? They all resulted from miscarriage - one of twins. He's obviously never had to make a life or death decision for his wife the way my husband did. Oh I know - the salpingectomy where the found a tiny embryo (ectopic) . . . guess what? My husband had to sign off on the abortion.

I will thank science and reason every day that your mom got the care she needed so that she could take care of you.

[Hekate]

151. When these accursed forced-birthers moved away from "babies" and started redefining...

…everything to do with a woman’s uterus as an “abortion” I knew we were in a world of trouble.

My contraceptives? Abortifacients. Plan B? Abortion. Treatment for ectopic pregnancy? Abortion. D&C to clear out remains of a miscarriage? Abortion. Complete hysterectomy in the first trimester because of a very fast-growing cancer? Abortion. Immediate emergency treatment to stanch the bleeding from a miscarriage? Abortion.

I realized these people are flipping nuts. The medical interventions that I knew saved women’s lives (including my own mother’s and including friends) were being stigmatized in ways they had not been in my own lifetime.

And then Dobbs. The message, loud and clear: “Die, you worthless bitches. Cows and sheep are worth more “

[BlueHurricane]

106. You don't think people care about abortion?

You realize not only people who have abortions, which are common, are affected by abortion bans right? Those miscarrying have died, DIED, because they were refused healthcare in states with an abortion ban. It is immoral for some issues to be a “State’s’ Rights Issue”. Women should not be subjected to different freedoms of life depending on what State they live in!

No one religious group should be allowed to force their religious practice on an entire state. I am not willing to give up and throw women under the bus or civil rights, gay rights, trans rights, you name it. We can’t concede our morals to win. We must bring others to our team righteously through the truth. Republicans have been controlling the narrative for a long time now and we have to stop allowing that to occur because you can’t win when you concede reality.

[TBF]

113. "We"? lolol --

You do know that abortion is winning in lots of states, even when Trump "allegedly" carried the state.

And the "people are starving" - BS they are starving. I live in TX - land of pick up trucks that are bigger than your house, and churches (and tithing) are bigger yet. That is a load.

[Scrivener7]

117. Jesus H. Christ. What is wrong with you?

[sinkingfeeling]

128. 1 in 4 American women have had an abortion. Far more than 2%.

[Duncan Grant]

69. They'll use cultural issues no matter what the Dems do (2004 gay marriage).

Let’s all take a moment to remember how in 2004, many states had amendments on their ballot banning gay marriage. Rove used that to drive conservative turn out for Bush. Democrats (Kerry) weren’t advocating for gay marriage in any way. Same was true in 2008. If you were around DU at the time, you’ll remember how contentious the issue was.

[EnergizedLib]

185. Leave civil rights and individual liberties to the states?

Not a chance.

[J_William_Ryan]

40. "All of us need to better and to give up on our faux elitism."

Since when is being advocates of facts and the truth ‘elitism’ – faux or otherwise.

“The price of eggs mattered” suggests that we join Republicans in their idiocracy of disinformation and lies, hostile to facts and the truth.

And the fact is that the ‘price of eggs’ was the consequence of corporate gouging, having nothing to do with President Biden or Vice President Harris, having nothing to do with anything Trump could ‘fix.’

[Hekate]

43. How about "we" address the rank misogyny in this country?

[Hellbound Hellhound]

57. So as of this post, I'm out.

Gotta have a rotator cuff surgery, sadly. If I don't respond to you personally I apologize in advance.

[questionseverything]

68. Good luck with your surgery!

[Hekate]

95. Best of luck w your surgery. Expect lots of pushback when you return.

[Duncan Grant]

71. When can we start addressing "class" issues? That's the fertile ground, imho.

I suppose I’m advocating for a strategy that’s to the left. One that acknowledges the disparity and who’s responsible. This is hard to do in a capitalist culture.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

74. Last, sedateed, post before I go in. Agreeee.

"Ism" issues are loosing bets to startt. End of the day its class. Economic warfare. poor vs rich. Thast the fight, not manufactured cottage industry "isms". That's how we fight and thats how we win.

Okay they want my phone I'm out. o7 If I dont make it through, keep fighting. Fight for America and everything she stands for. I believe in you.

[Prairie Gates]

83. YESSSS!!!

[JoseBalow]

76. Didn't W win running on a promise of a direct payment to citizens?

Was that a campaign promise, or did that come after he was elected? And it really wasn't all that much, was it? Like $100?

[Prairie Gates]

82. Democrats need to return to a full-throated critique of CAPITALISM

The Clinton illusion is that if you abjure true leftism and embrace some happy capitalist nonsense, occasionally criticizing "corporate overreach," you can win back working class voters who are being devastated by capitalist crisis. It is a lie, and voters know that it is a lie. So they look for anyone providing a believable explanation for the crisis. The conservatives displace the crisis to various places that are relatively plausible (the elites, the immigrants, China), and in this way at least give people something to hold on to and identify. Democrats have failed to provide an explanation for the crisis of capitalism because they refuse to say the word capitalism and refuse to provide an analysis that makes plausible sense. There's good reason to believe that Obama won because he identified capitalism itself as the basis for the financial crisis of 2008, and then identified Mitt Romney as a vulture capitalist.

Trump is the clearest sign that the Clinton strategy of embracing capitalism is failed and doomed to failure. People don't believe the Democratic argument (that it is the "corporations," maybe sometimes, but we still love them) because it is weak, but also because it is not true. You have to provide an analysis for what is happening. The right at least goes through the motions of doin that. The center left is too scared to even say the word.

[Shermann]

138. A good middle-ground is to critique UNFETTERED CAPITALISM. nt

[Emile]

163. and how Predatory Capitalism caused inflation.

[NoRethugFriends]

84. Uh huh

[liberalgunwilltravel]

88. It will be the working class that suffers most from Trump's rule

From the economy on down, the working class will get clobbered. And if there is another pandemic, which is likely, they will also die in disproportionate numbers because of the active dismantling of the agencies designed to protect them. Yes, Democrats need better messaging. But you can only reach people who are reachable. Hard to do when their only information sources are propaganda.

[hadEnuf]

131. We also need better ways to get the messages delivered.

We have no real ways to compete with saturation of the right wing lie machines.

[haele]

157. H1N5 is starting to mutate enough it might be able to jump to humans.

There's your next plague.
Avian influenza.
It typically doesn't jump to mammals, and if it does, it usually presents as a quickly symptomatic but long lasting, miserable flu; but it has resulted in respiratory failure, brain swelling an/or sepsis at an unusually high rate. This mutation seems to be enabling the jump to mammals easier, and looks to be far more contagious between mammals.

And *rump with his "pure blood" fatalists are going to be in charge of the CDC when it really starts affecting population centers.

Haele

[uponit7771]

94. PoC are mostly "working class" too

[Iggo]

100. Yeah, but you and me both know that's not what they mean when they say "working class."

[uponit7771]

112. True, its just we allow "they" to define the conversation way too much

[appmanga]

102. I would have bet that surgery...

was an antecranial colorectal.

[Bettie]

105. Ah another voice

that says "we need to center straight white men and forget everyone else".

[slightlv]

108. I absolutely believe the "isms" and "ics" matter.

Even through this abysmal election, where abortion was on the ticket, it won. But this damned country just isn't grown up enough to realize that neither skin color, gender, nor sex matters when it comes to governing. Completely different principles involved; but critical thinking is dead in this country (if it were ever truly alive). Both men *and* women are prejudiced against a female president, no matter how many other countries have voted women into their highest offices for decades. We've denigrated for so long as "too emotional" and subject to bad judgements at "that time of the month." Both of these as well as so many others pinned to us since time immemorial. I proffer that men are MUCH more emotional than women, and a hell of a lot less capable of handling their emotions, except via war and other violence. But obviously, people prefer wars to diplomacy.

[haele]

109. Which "Working Class"? The Unions went in large numbers to Harris.

The Democratic party represents all Working Class issues except one - the maintenance of traditional privilege.
The Working Class some Democrats would like us to focus on is the traditional post WWII working class that used the Democrat's brand spanking new GI Bill to go to College or Trade School, start small businesses, and buy cute houses in the Suburbs. This traditional Working Class also tended to get first dibs on job openings and promotions, while the women and minorities who often had to work those jobs were laid off due to the post war drawdown, and then ignored when both the Space Race and the tech boom took off.
That's often the Working Class types Republicans and some Democrats talk about reaching out to.
The huge problem is - that working class segment is finding it harder to live like their parents did because they have to compete with the other working class segments for fewer jobs. And they're panicking because they have to work harder like everyone else does.

Look, I understand that it sounds like I'm picking on white guys. But it's really the employers, using programs that Democrats tried to bring on to level the field and then turning around and talking about quotas when they don't want to hire the proper amount of people for the job; they just want people they know who will work twice as hard for the same pay as what would be expected from a single worker.
Because "Competition" makes workers desperate and willing to put up with substandard working conditions to keep their jobs instead of telling the boss to take that job and shove it. And almost all of the working class that aren't from the traditional sector understand working twice as hard in shitty conditions than the traditional worker.

Haele

[SocialDemocrat61]

119. What a load of absolute right wing, corporate media BS

Most of the Harris campaign was focused on the working class with programs to assist first time home buyers and small business owners. This is all just an effort by insecure white men to purge people and causes that threaten their fragile egos from the Democratic Party. Democrats should never stop supporting women, people of color, LGBTQ, and marginalized communities regardless of how uncomfortable it makes insecure white men.

[krkaufman]

122. Just a reprehensible thread

That may upset the Identitypheliacs

[Scrivener7]

147. Thank you.

[JI7]

129. She won the working class of all groups other than white people

[Yavin4]

149. Thank you.

The OP's argument is getting tiring.

[Diraven]

134. The problem is propaganda

The white working class has been incessantly indoctrinated by omnipresent right-wing media that all their problems are the fault of others - immigrants, minorities, feminists, Muslims, communists, etc. And if they can just get rid of all those people ruining the country for them then everything will be great again. The right doesn't even need to say anything positive they can do for them (because that would require the oligarchs who are really in control to give up some of their power). Just demonize and defeat their enemies and the white working class wins by default being the last ones standing.

[Figarosmom]

137. Are you kidding me

The right wing ads hammered all day and all night about Trans and guns and immigrants coming to murder you in your beds. Not much about the working man at all. They also fooled people into believing in inflation going up while it was down and had been going down for over a year. But now it's started going up again but they'll tell everyone it's down and they'll believe it. When trumps guys start union busting and dismantling labor laws and OSHA maybe then it will sink in that the repubs are not like them.

The Supreme Court just essentially eliminated over time so there's trumps promise not to tax it.

[Shermann]

140. Trump's tariffs will likely create an immediate spike in inflation

The benefits, if any, will take years to come to fruition.

[WarGamer]

143. +1000 nt

[ecstatic]

144. it's the republicans who keep "isms" going. They are the ones who are DESPERATE

to turn back the clock on women, black people, gay people, basically--anyone who is not a white male.

So are you suggesting that we stay silent when confronted with republican bigotry?

And it's surprising that after everything we've seen, you still think that ignoring bigotry will somehow bring white voters back.

[krkaufman]

152. It's remarkable ...

… how effective the RW propaganda is, that so many buy into the premise that it is the Left that pushes so-called “identity politics” … when the reality is just that the Left is typically just coming to the defense of the latest group targeted for hate and discrimination by the Right.

[CoopersDad]

150. I hope your arm surgery is fully successful.

And I agree with your editorial above.

K/R

[Eko]

154. I can walk and chew gum at the same time!

All those -isms are well worth fighting for as well as the poor.

[Blue_Tires]

155. FFS how many more times are we going to have this thread?

If this shit was REALLY about "the economy" then nobody in their right fucking mind would vote for TFG because he has EXACTLY **TWO** STRATEGIES to "fix the economy":

1. Deporting tens of millions of people

2. Tariffs on everything

End of list...

I'm not an economist, but if anyone wants to explain how doing these things will make a great economy (2.1 percent inflation, 4 percent unemployment, excellent job creation numbers every quarter, record DJIA) even better, I'm all ears... So far all I've heard is silence.

[mvd]

156. I agree, at least to a degree

The misogynists, racists, and just plain ignorant might be beyond hope. But even if exasperating, there are some low info and propaganda filled voters we need to try to reach better. That is if we can keep normal elections going.

[travelingthrulife]

175. We have to stop the propaganda they are consuming before ANYTHING

we do will work. They have been trained since Richard Nixon to hate any and all Democrats. It is reflexive. Doesn't matter really what the Dem message is as we just learned in last week's lesson.

[Shermann]

160. You smuggled in a falsehood

It is incorrect to say that "most Americans have little if anything to do with Wall Street." The actual percentage of U.S. adults that owns stock is 62 percent as of 2024.

https://www.statista.com/chart/30224/share-of-americans-who-own-stock/

[Emile]

162. We need to improve our messaging.

[JCMach1]

166. Here.we go again. With obsessive focus on economic

When the clear problem was how everything was being framed and micro targeted in social media.

VP Harris ran a perfect campaign for maybe 2000.

We spent a billion dollars with a ton of it going to GOTV, meanwhile the other side was busy ramping up NOGOTV to keep the right demographics butts on the couch.

Sadly, I see little alternatives in future cycles but to use the same tactics and tech against the other side.

Otherwise, we are bringing balloons to a knife fight.

Tactics moved the last election, not policies. We do a major disservice to Harris and Biden to pretend otherwise.

[pinkstarburst]

168. We need to fix our messaging

Our messaging needs to focus on people here, how to improve the lives of the majority of Americans, working class, middle class Americans. That means we need to talk about the price of groceries, rent, wages, and how to make life easier for them in a way that THEY feel in their pocketbooks. Not say "the economy is better" in an abstract stock market way that bears no relevance to someone with $5.62 in their checking account for the rest of the month and 2 hungry kids to feed.

The reality is, if you are making minimum wage, can't pay rent, can't afford groceries, can't afford heat and it's getting colder with winter coming, you are worried about your personal situation and your kids. You don't have the mental headspace to worry about extra stuff like what's going on over on the other side of the globe in Ukraine, Israel, or Gaza, and sorry to say, hearing that we are sending billions of dollars over there might make you really angry when you are hungry and cold and feeling like no one is helping YOU. Same if we are talking about wonderful long term goals like identity politics. We SHOULD be doing all those things. We can KEEP doing all those things. We are smart enough to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Our problem is we suck at messaging.

We need to make our message LOUDLY and most of the time, how we are going to make your personal economic situation better if you are in that minimum wage, blue collar worker group, and the middle class. That's the majority of voters. Make our message how we are going to make your life better in a tangible way.

[TheKentuckian]

170. The problem is the more stupidi of white folks get the "economic anxiety" something awful anytime a Republican isn't

in place to absolutely wreck the economy they pretend to care about or have any concept of and some even more stupid Latinos that think emulating the white fuckwits will bring them up the ladder above black people.

Add a generous dose of some even dumber largely antisemitic
and wholly witless motherfuckers hollering and lying about "genocide" for a year falling for terrorists propaganda and staying home, voting for a Putin puppet or for Chump directly in a targeted and blatantly intentional effort to elect the orange skidmark.

I don't want to hear any lying bullshit about prices, if that was the real issue then braindead fuckwits would not be voting to RAISE them.

Don't try they didn't know either because that is a fucking lie because the backwash pieces of shit where told and told and told and fucking told some more but they vacantly could only blink and say "Trump says...", get the fuck out of here with this tired mess because y'all want to pretend your garbage cult kids friends and relations aren't stupid, lowlife garbage, traitorous slime.

[mainer]

171. The demand for liberal purity got us into this mess

Yes, my MAGA relatives are worried about the economy.
But you know what really got them riled up? The pronoun stuff. They're enraged that they have to deal with remembering everyone's pronouns. And they're enraged that trans women are in school sports. And they're furious about gender reassignment. These are issues that the majority of the electorate is tired of hearing about, and the GOP wouldn't stop talking about, making it seem like Dems cared more about those issues than anything else.

[Fish700]

191. This is true.

I used to work with a guy who would always try to get me to agree to some stupid thing conservatives were pushing and when I gave him a thoughtful reply on why the conservatives were full of shit he would look at me and ask "what's a woman?"

Nothing I said made up for the fact that there are some liberals who are fine with biological males identifying as women. I would ask him how that hurt anyone and he would just spout "what's a woman?" back to me.

Until the DNC can can convince knuckle-heads like this that Republicans are worse at making life better for them than Democrats are we are never going to get their votes.

[marmar]

173. '"Racism!" "Sexism!" "Transphobic!" but at the end of the day none of that mattered'

Bullshit, and to believe otherwise is delusional. They weren't the only factors, but to believe they didn't play a role extremely naive.

[Solly Mack]

174. No isms, so no classism.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

176. "let's start winning election and speak to the people crying out for help."

The problem is, there are enough people "crying out for help" who don't want that help to go to Black people, single moms, the underemployed trans person they think they've clocked at the coffeeshop that they are willing to vote against anyone who offers help across the board, which is why we're in the mess we are now. They want it to go only to them and people they themselves think deserve it.

[oldmanlynn]

178. Misinformation is what has the maga voters locked in

Throw in a heavy dose of religion. We could do everything to cater to these voters but misinformation will keep them all locked in.

We have to break the misinformation spell somehow

[intheflow]

179. No.

“Letting go” of isms doesn’t make them go away, it kills opposition to them and their effects become more entrenched. Harris damn near won, fuck this Dems have to become stupider and stfu about things that matter to them. This kind of piece seeks to move the party farther to the right and the last thing this country needs is THAT. IMO, we need to double down on it.

The reasons we lost were racism, sexism, and a three month campaign for a candidate who hadn’t won the primary at the top of the ticket, coupled with media shenanigans & social media. Telling us to ditch the isms is the ultimate form of gaslighting, blaming the educated for mass ignorance, and telling people directly impacted by isms that it’s in their best interest to stfu.

[kansasobama]

180. Can we stop this myth about the wonderful working class?

I am going to use my own post elsewhere to explain.

Things have changed and Bernie Sanders should stop this high praise for the working class and dismissing all educated wealthy as elitists. Dems are still using the old playbook. Working class has become a MAGA cult bloc that votes against its interests. It is not easy as-Dems have not helped working class . Biden did a lot for the unions as its members backstabbed Harris.

Many wealthy, not all, in the new climate are benevolent Democrats who don't want tax cuts that will make the debt problem worse. On the other hand, there are many lower to middle class, who are becoming rabid MAGA or vote for the GOP like a cult, even against their own interests

So, it is not true that we need an anti-wealthy party and go all out for working class.

Democrats have their work cut out. First, although well-meaning, Bernie Sanders should stop singing the same song about the working class. It is not that simple.

A new thinking Democratic consultants are badly needed. Kamala Harris was, in a way, trying to thread that needle. Too bad she did not win.

I do not know how to convince this working class cult. I hope they settle down after Trump messes up everything It may be time they suffer the consequences of electing Trump for at least two full years. Again, I don't know. That is why we have the high paid consultants who are not doing their job. It is time they start working rather than sending us a rosy picture.

Stop bashing educated wealthy Dems as elites.

[Blasphemer]

189. If the Dems do that, they will lose me for good

I did not support Sanders for that very reason. To attack capitalism and create true progressive economic policies, the isms need to be directly confronted. Ignoring them feeds capitalism.

[Initech]

192. Democrats need to address that there's a massive propaganda problem in this country.

And one network in particular is convinced that all of Washington DC is its' personal property. That wretched abomination of a network needs to be taken down several hundred notches if we are to have fair elections again.

[RJ_MacReady]

194. I hate to admit it

But the OP is correct.