That Spoonamore guy who wrote the "Duty to Warn" letter is going to be on Thom Hartmann in about 10 minutes.

[LaMouffette]

Even Thom said at the start of his show today that he was skeptical and had reservations about Spoonamore's allegations, so yes, this could be just a big ol' conspiracy theory. Still, I want to see what he has to say.

[Think. Again.]

1. I can't really doubt his allegations...

...they seem reasonable with all things considered, but I am very afraid we are just going to walk away in premature defeat again, just like we did in 2000 and 2004.

And if we do just give up again, I really can't see the younger generation taking any of us seriously ever again, and that doesn't bode well for us in the next few decades.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. He seems to have pulled his numbers from thin air

No one on DU has been able to explain where they come from, or why they are incompatible with the published votes. So why can't you really doubt his allegations?

[Think. Again.]

4. His number estimates aren't important...

...the facts around how these hacks were done, and the many indications that they were done, is what convinces me that the relatively minor trouble of doing recounts is very much worth it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. I hadn't seen any facts about how hacks were done on DU

I've seen that he's suggested ways hacks could happen, but not that they actually had. I've seen DUers gone on for ages about the numbers. What are these "many indications"?

[Think. Again.]

7. yes, that's exactly why recounts must be done...

...the only way to know if a cashier shortchanged you is to recount the change they gave you.

If we don't verify the first-count results, we are complicit in any cheating that may have occurred, and the only way to verify those first-count results, is to recount the votes using a trustworthy method and not the same method (digital tabulators) that is being questioned by so many cybersecurity experts.

I understand why the rightwingers don't want the results verified, but I don't understand why true Dems wouldn't want to be sure the astonishing results are accurate.

[tritsofme]

10. Harris is a "true Dem," no? It's pretty easy to understand why she is not pushing recounts.

There is no real evidence it is required, just baseless conspiracy theories.

These recounts cost money, lots. Unlike Trump, she has no desire to bilk her supporters out of millions of dollars solely for her own vanity.

[Think. Again.]

11. You really shouldn't make up things that other people said.

Harris has not made any public statements on this issue.

[tritsofme]

16. Of course she hasn't. Why would she address baseless conspiracy theories floating around the fringes of the internet?

I don’t think she’s spoken much about chemtrails either.

[Think. Again.]

17. Then people should not put words in her mouth.

[tritsofme]

18. I didn't put any words in her mouth. I said she is not pushing recounts, and she is not.

It’s easy to understand why.

[Think. Again.]

20. I'm sure she is quite capable of keeping quite about any plans she may have.

[tritsofme]

25. lol, the conspiracy theory takes another turn!

Yes yes, I’m sure the “real” reason Harris has not addressed some goofy internet conspiracy theory is because she is waiting for just the right moment to embrace it. Totally checks out.

[Think. Again.]

27. You might be trying to dig a rabbit hole.

[tritsofme]

29. Some folks are certainly down deep in one.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Recounts must be done because there haven't been any facts about the hacks on DU?

Wow. I had no idea that rumours on DU should have national consequences.

Were you advocating doing a recount before the election, when it was Trump saying the system was rigged?

If Free Republic was demanding a recount without having shown that any hacks had taken place, would you be supporting them?

[Think. Again.]

28. Your resistence to verifying the first-count results is noted.

Thank you for your input.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. Look, I'm responding to your posts. Please respond to mine.

I said "I hadn't seen any facts about how hacks were done on DU. I've seen that he's suggested ways hacks could happen, but not that they actually had. I've seen DUers gone on for ages about the numbers." and you replied " yes, that's exactly why recounts must be done". So, please explain why a lack of facts on DU is a reason for a recount.

I asked you "What are these "many indications"?" and you haven't tried to back up your assertion. So, again, what are these "many indications"?

Did you advocate for a mass recount in 2020? 2012? 2008? If not, why do you think those counts were secure, but not in 2024?

Yes, just like the Democratic party, I'm resistant to demanding a recount without any evidence. Maybe I'll remind you of that in the future.

[Think. Again.]

31. Perhaps this short interview today with Steven Spoonamore himself...

...will give you the info you are looking for.

Fast forward to 2:15 for the Spoonamore segment.

https://m.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. No, it doesn't. He starts off with a hypothetical without evidence

He says "maybe Musk had information on who was a likely Trump voter, and maybe he was able to see in real time who had already voted, and maybe he had already hacked the voting system in many states, and so he was able to insert a vote for Trump for people who hadn't actually voted". But no, no facts or evidence - or a suggestion on how the widespread hack took place without anyone noticing. Then he started into the numbers which you say don't matter, and I say he hasn't provided his sources for (and which don't match with reality, in the case of North Carolina, where he claimed the discrepancy was largest).

I think he's a kook who is out for publicity. The interview certainly didn't provide any reason to listen to him.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. I'm trying to find some exit polls and the regular polls close to the election.

and comparing them to the results. Will report it here when I have the numbers. I encourage other wonks around here to do the same. These days, you have to do your own research and journalists would be too timid to report it.

[2naSalit]

2. wish there was...

A link.

[Think. Again.]

6. Can anyone supply a link to this segment?

Thom's youtube channel doesn't seem to have it yet.

[CoopersDad]

8. Here's a youtube link, 3-hour show, Spoonamore is at the beginning of the third hour.

..
You'll need to fast forward past the first two hours to where only one hour remains and then it's starts with Spoonamore.

[Think. Again.]

12. Thank you!

[LaMouffette]

9. Spoonamore said that the only person who can ask for a recount is Kamala Harris. I am going to write to my senator

through his website's "Contact Me" feature and describe what Spoonamoor is saying and ask him, if he believes action is warranted, to get the word to Kamala. My senator is Jon Tester, a person of uncommon courage, in my opinion. If there is something to this, he will do something about it, even if he is, very unfortunately, losing his Senate seat to Trump humper extraordinaire Tim Sheehy.

Anyone else who thinks Spoonamoor's allegations at least deserve some investigations might do the same and contact their (Democratic) senators and (Democratic) representatives.

As Thom pointed out, questioning election results after Trump's Big Lie is radioactive. Being able to legitimately question results is yet another thing Trump wants to steal from us.

[orleans]

13. i posted a couple different things after the show

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219737975

[onenote]

14. I can't believe folks are blindly buying this bullet ballot bullshit.

There is no way Spoonamare can know how many bullet ballots were cast -- that information is not available from any of the states he cites. Nor is there any way he could calculate it from the information that is available.

Indeed, the information that is available resoundingly contradicts his claim. How are there 350,000 "bullet ballots" for Trump in North Carolina -- that is, ballots on which no votes are cast in any of the other elections, when the difference between the total number of ballots cast in the presidential race and the total number cast in the governor's race is far far less that 350,000.

And I just checked Arizona. Again, the difference between the total number of votes cast in the presidential race in those states is only minimally higher than the total number of ballots cast in the elections for US Senator -- around 1.2 percent. That's basically the same % as the difference in presidential race ballots and senate race ballots cast in Arizona in 2020. It's actually less than the difference in the ballots cast in the presidential and senate races in Virginia this year -- 1.3%.

[ElementaryPenguin]

23. With all due respect...

I'm thinking Spoonamare has more expertise than most DU posters possess.

Secondly, where is the downside to exploring this? Criticism from Trump and MAGA followers? That's non-stop anyway - and after the Big Lie they certainly have no credibility on the subject of voting irregularities.

The upside could only save this country - not to mention this planet.

[onenote]

26. With all due respect, the numbers speak for themselves

And he has not offered any explanation of where his numbers come from and how they square with what is actually been reported.

I didn't blindly accept the unsubstantiated claims made by the Trumpers after the 2020 election. And I'm not going to blindly accept what on its face are unsubstantiated claims offered by Spoonamore now.

[Think. Again.]

15. Also, apparently a candidate must wait...

...until after state audits ate complete to request a recount, and I know that N.C. at least is running late on completing their audits.

[ElementaryPenguin]

19. I found Spoonamore extremely credible

Forward his warning letter to your Senators and representatives!

[Think. Again.]

21. K&R

[onenote]

24. Did he explain how he determined the number of "bullet ballots"?

Did he explain how he came up with there being 350,000 votes cast only in the presidential race in North Carolina -- and, apparently only for Trump -- when the difference between the total number of ballots cast in the presidential race and the total number of ballots cast in the Governor's race is far far less than 350,000?

How credible can he be if he has no answer for those questions?

[EarlG]

33. I did a search for Spoonamore on DU and this 16 year old thread came up

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x511097

He appears to be a lifelong peddler of evidence-free election conspiracy theories.