About Those Bullet Ballots

[gab13by13]

Those of you comparing Democrats questioning the election to QAnon, I have a couple of questions for you.

Listening to Thom Hartmann, he had a guest on who was one of the computer experts who sent the letter to Kamala to audit the election.

This guy has built computer hardware.

Answer this question;

Nevada and Arizona had 5% and 7% of their total ballots, bullet ballots. Neighboring state Utah had way way less than 1%.

Occam's Razor - if something stinks there's good chance it's rotten.

A hand count audit is the only thing that will convince me that this election was not stolen.

Don't you dare compare me with QAnon. People don't take the time to vote and only vote for 1 Republican on the ballot, that would be stupid.

[bearsfootball516]

1. While I would be fine with a hand count audit, your last sentence is incorrect.

I know two people who literally did exactly that, I work with them. They both registered to vote for the first time this fall, voted for Trump and left the rest of the ballot blank.

It's hard to believe, but those people do exist.

[NJCher]

2. Yesterday

in one of the discussion threads, Emile asked the question: "How many bullet ballots were there for Harris?" We need the answer to that question.

[gab13by13]

4. Not down ballots, you mean bullet ballots.

[NJCher]

7. yes

thanks for catching that.

[Native]

28. didn't he have those numbers in his duty to warn letter?

I seem to recall some numbers. And the letter also highlighted the difference - like how in past elections bullet ballots accounted for roughly .05% compared to like a full 5 or 7% in this one. iow, the jump in this election was outrageous. in his interview today on Thom Hartmann, he talked more about the tabulators. worth a listen.

[OMGWTF]

33. I also heard about ballots that voted for Trump and then straight Dems. Weird.

[gab13by13]

5. 7% of a state's total is a lot more than 2.

[bearsfootball516]

8. Yes it is

What I'm saying is that if I personally know two people, I can only imagine how many others may have done that in a state where millions of votes were cast.

[Loupe Garoue]

15. I think what I read was it only happened at that high percentage in swing states

I have been doing a lot of reading about this, and I recall that that is one of the reasons it is raising alarms.

[RandomNumbers]

128. Right - it is the statistical anomaly that is raising questions.

How "convenient!" that this happened in the swing states!

It is possible that it is related to intensive campaigning in those states. But it is reasonable to select a few districts and do a hand recount there. If issues are found, then it would expand to more districts. If no issues are found in the first sample, then it is a lot harder to justify the expense of further recounts.

[onenote]

160. Except it didn't happen at a higher percentage in swing states.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19738572

[Ray Bruns]

17. I agree. And he answered his own question. Are people that stupid?

Yes they are.

[yellowdogintexas]

54. It happens a LOT, it is called undervoting.

Basically, vorers skip the downballot entirely. Sometimes the only race they are interested in is their own representative.

I saw a LOT ov undervoting in my precinct stats.
(mostly Democrats skipping over all the unopposed judicial positions)

[JMCKUSICK]

87. Especially Trumpers

[soldierant]

118. Of course they exist. That's not the point.

The question is, do they exist in swing states in so much greater numbers than they do in reliably red or reliably blue states? Because that's what happened.

If there were more numbers (and therefore also percentages) of bullet ballots in Arizona than there were in New York, why? If there were more sheer numbers of bullet ballots in Georgia than there were in Texas, why? That's the question.

Bullet ballots have been tracked long enough for those doing the tracking to state categorically that this has not happened before. The number amd percentage has been pretty stable both from election to election and from state to state. That is not true this time.

[soandso]

120. Only that's all BS

As proved in my post in this thread and the single thread I created with the same data.

[Hope22]

124. What is your background with software manipulation resulting in data errors? Forget it......

I don’t want to argue with you. I’m so tired of people who may or may not be experts telling everyone what to do! Really tired! And then the people who know and won’t speak out of fear cower in the corner. Too much!

[soandso]

131. I'm not into arguing

and the poster I responded to was not talking about software but so called "bullet ballots", an entirely different subject.

[rainy]

3. I listened to this on Thom's show. He said Kamala was the only one who could request a recount

[Sympthsical]

6. Provide evidence of claims for your question

You want us to answer your question, but you do not want to present us with evidence for the claims.

And "I heard it from a guy on Thom Hartmann" isn't evidence.

One thing this guy has been very shady about is providing data, methodologies, and evidence for assertions he is making. Even when directly asked by knowledgeable data scientists (his Reddit AMA) he bobbed and weaved his way through it. (And if you pay attention to his answers - really pay attention - you rapidly figure out he's cherry-picking as much as humanly possible to make his claims. For example, in his North Carolina claims, he admits he just ignored the governor's race, because he didn't think it should count. Don't all data scientists do that?).

You can't demand answers to a question when your own basis for that question isn't established as a fact. But you're acting as though it is. You've simply accepted the claim prima facie and then demand people refute that which is impossible, because no one can verify it.

Which is what . . . that word you dislike does.

The claim is one he's making (and you're repeating). Show your work.

[Loupe Garoue]

16. These claims are made based on available statistics

None of us have all the information, this is why a hand count would be necessary.

[Wiz Imp]

102. What available statistics?

No data has been provided to the public to support these claims. If the numbers are real, show them!. Otherwise, it makes it appear that they are just making shit up.

[NJCher]

19. how about you show your work

he bobbed and weaved his way through it. (And if you pay attention to his answers - really pay attention - you rapidly figure out he's cherry-picking as much as humanly possible to make his claims.

++Provide the clip that shows where he "bobbed and weaved."

--show examples of cherry picking so we can make up our own minds and not rely on you for a judgment.

These are subjective claims.

[rubbersole]

20. A hand recount should be welcomed by all.

Why not? Lots of rw claims of fraud before the election (lookin' at you, Gym). magats will freak out, but they already seem angrier than before the election. Global stability is on the line.

[Think. Again.]

48. ⬆⬆⬆THIS⬆⬆⬆

[JoeBydun]

64. I agree

If Kamala did in fact lose legitimately then it is what it is. But we demand a recount just to confirm this. Nothing wrong with asking for that.

[bikes and bunnies]

90. I agree. Do the hand count!!!

Then we'll have the evidence, one way or the other.
Why would anyone be opposed to that?

Come on, Madame Vice President.
You said you would fight for us.

[Fiendish Thingy]

34. This post should be a thread of its own.

Well said!

[Cirsium]

37. It is either true or it is not true

Is there an extraordinarily high percentage of ballots registering a vote for Trump and no votes for any other office in the swing states when compared to neighboring states? I don't know that to be true. But if that were true, it would warrant further investigation, would it not?

[onenote]

70. It's not true.

There is no evidence that there is an "extraordinarily high" percentage of ballots registering a vote for Trump and no votes in the swing states -- certainly nowhere near the number Spoonamore claims.

He claims 350,000 such votes in North Carolina alone. But the total number of votes for president only exceeds the total number of votes for governor by around 100,000 at last count -- somewhat higher than is typical, but a not surprising outcome given the total collapse of Mark Robinson's campaign for governor.

In Arizona the difference between the total votes in the presidential race and the total votes in the US Senate race was around 1.2% -- basically the same as in 2020.

And in Nevada, a swing state won by Trump also was around 1.2 percent -- actually slightly less that the percentage in Virginia - 1.34% -- a non-swing state won by Harris.

These numbers are easily checked by going to the official election sites for these states -- adding up the total votes cast for president and a statewide race such as governor or US Senate, subtracting the latter from the former and calculating the percentage of the difference.

Mr. Spoonamore apparently hasn't bothered to do any of those things and is pulling numbers of alleged 'bullet ballots' and percentages out of thin air.

[Cirsium]

108. Thanks

What the hell is all of the chatter about?

[Zeitghost]

121. It is manipulation

n/t

[TheKentuckian]

143. Desperation.

As demonstrated by chucking Elias who has done the hardwork for a long time, under the first bus that passed along with at least inferring Biden, Harris, Shapiro, Evers, and Witmer are either in on some shenanigans to hand the nation over to ChumpCo or at minimum are too out of it and disinterested to do anything.

Many apparently grabbed transcripts of Chump's lies and decided that he wss was right the whole way and copied that shit nearly verbatim, "Deep State" and all.

[Cirsium]

144. Agreed

It is a great tragedy. Many warnings were ignored, for years. Critical voices were marginalized and ridiculed. Compromise after compromise after compromise.

[nbsmom]

158. Stephen Spoonamore has been doing this for awhile.

The discussion on Thom Hartmann today unleashed a load of Deja vu for me.

In 2002, Spoonamore was one of the people who investigated the malfeasance that flipped the results of the Max Cleland/Saxby Chambliss election (Max Cleland was initially reluctant to accept his help, but later admitted that Spoonamore had been right all along.)

In 2004, he was part of the team that investigated the man in the middle exploit that resulted in Kerry’s loss in Ohio.

In other words, this guy knows when people are doing funky things with people’s votes. If what he’s saying isn’t true and that he’s pulling numbers out of thin air, then why did Musk flag Spoonamore’s account on Twitter/X after his AMA on Reddit?

Spoonamore himself is saying his suspicions were raised because Musk held a “lottery” to grab addresses from would-be voters. Then on Election Day, the bomb threats at primarily Dem precincts in PA. Ultimately, he’s really only saying he’s seeing flags, and that the only way to know for sure is to do hand counts in the two precincts with outlier results. If those track with the tabulated totals, then he’s wrong.

But the thing is, Spoonamore is not the only one. There’s a different group of election and cybersecurity officials (part of the Free Speech for People group) who have also shared a letter with VP Harris. And I have also seen some analysis done of both the Arizona and North Carolina races by different data professionals. All of them are saying, “the math ain’t mathing.”

I don’t pretend to know your background or impugn your expertise. It looks like you’ve been a part of the DU community for a long time. But as others have pointed out on this thread, there is a lot at stake, and it’s important that we do everything we can to fight to save our democracy. After all, as Madam Vice President likes to say, “When we fight, we win.”

[SickOfTheOnePct]

91. It's not true

Post #85 lays out the numbers

[Cirsium]

130. Very good nt

...

[Wiz Imp]

103. How about providing the data to show that it is true?

Yes if true, it warrants further investigation so prove to us it's true and we'll investigate. Why are they not providing any data to prove it's true?

[Cirsium]

109. Sure

Agreed.

[keepthemhonestO]

46. The difference

With NC is that governor was not popular and was getting ousted.

There are many irregularities in those battleground states only, please keep and open mind.i am sorry, I'm not able to list them all here but you don't have to be a mathematical genius to see it. I was terrible in statistics but the probability of winning all those battleground states is extremely low.
Shortly MIT and other people will be writing up reports about this but it will be too late.

Listen, even if she wanted a recount, got it in a few places and it changed the outcome... They'll still install him. I just want proof of what I already know, he stole it.

Highest office in the land, the most powerful position in the world, yeah he pussy grabbed America.

[yellowdogintexas]

63. The Governor of North Carolina was term limited.

From what I can tell, he was well liked

[keepthemhonestO]

134. My bad, I was thinking that was

Mark Robinson, the KKK wannabe.

[unc70]

67. NC governor was not getting "ousted"

Governor Cooper was term limited.

The unpopular candidate for governor was Mark Robinson, the R candidate who was/is the black Nazi. That race is not representative.

[onenote]

111. The governor in North Carolina was not unpopular and the repub opponent was a all out disaster

Did you miss the revelations about Mark Robinson? Its no wonder that more than the typical number of voters opted not to vote in the governor's race. But even in North Carolina, the numbers don't come close to what Spoonamore has, without any substantiation, claimed.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

112. I keep hearing about irregularities

But the actual numbers show otherwise.

The battleground polls leading up to the election showed races within the margin of error for every battleground state...I always assumed that one candidate would win all of them, I just had no idea which one it would be.

[keepthemhonestO]

135. You

Must have watched the same news I did , where they said trump would be flooding the polling with their own polls. This was intended to make the race look close.

[questionseverything]

50. Kinda funny you expect a poster on the web to " show your work " but the government doesn't have to

It implies citizens should blindly trust the government and that’s not how democracies work

[Sympthsical]

58. At this point, I'd like the guy the poster is repeating to show his work

But he's being awfully spiky about it and highly selective about what little he is willing to share. He's heavy on claims, shallow on producing hard data that can be examined with methodologies replicated. You know, what science and math do.

He's been asked, directly, multiple times to share where he's pulling information. He hasn't. He talks around it and implies things without saying anything concrete that can be grasped.

Does that strike you as someone operating in wholly good faith? If this is all true, and he already did all the calculations, just drop the data. He should have it all organized already. Just hit "post" on substack and let people go through it.

The fact he blatantly avoids doing this when asked should raise all the flags.

It's credulity sprung from wish-making.

[questionseverything]

61. I actually think the letter signed by buell and experts is more convincing

And those guys have tons of data to see

Brad blog has the details if you’re curious but

I don’t feel like that negates my original point that “ we the people “ should get to oversee every bit of our elections

[Wiz Imp]

104. So why not provide the data for us to see??????????????

[SickOfTheOnePct]

113. I showed my work

to show that his numbers are BS, so why can't he show his to show that his numbers are valid?

A couple of other "posters on the web" have done the same thing in this thread. It's not rocket science.

[Zeitghost]

122. The government(s)

Posted their numbers, we can check the math and it doesn't back up the claims.

[questionseverything]

125. Numbers were posted, true but they were not counted by human beings

They were counted with a software program that no citizen gets to oversee

[Zeitghost]

133. We oversea them through State and Local Officials

We elect to oversea them and who follow rigorous security and accuracy standards.

The bullet ballot claims do no match the published vote counts.

[questionseverything]

142. To be clear my comments are not about the bullet ballot claim at all

Past that, you are the second poster that has explained to me how citizens should simply “trust” our government and election officials to let us know what the results are.

I don’t agree with that I believe if regular citizens can’t oversee the count we don’t have a legitimate democracy

Wasn’t it stalin who said, who votes doesn’t matter only who counts the votes?

[Walleye]

9. In 2020 the Maga raised hell over "irregularities" and "anomalies"

They thought that just being suspicious was enough to overturn the election, so they stormed the capitol. I don’t think we’re thinking about that. Just proves that we are the patriotic Americans in this situation

[questionseverything]

57. The big difference is they hand counted Georgia

Btw thousands of votes were found that didn’t get recorded first time around….it didn’t change biden’s win though

I do think election officials were embarrassed that votes were found and realized why other states don’t want looked at too closely

[hadEnuf]

60. Correct. They went with zero evidence and turned the country and election process on its head.

Not to mention that they tried a coup d'etat over it resulting in casualties.

But now we should keep our mouths shut while they don't utter a peep because their Fuhrer won, which is looking more and more suspicious every day due to these irregularities now being discovered?

We either want our democracy or not.

[proud patriot]

10. I see evidence and I have questions

Just like you I'm not a conspiarcy nut ..

[Bluethroughu]

11. You are not nuts, this should be a hand count because it is so close and

There are questionable forces fixing to break our country into pieces so the vultures can pick off the carcus.

Why is Elon not being brought in by the justice dept. He is clearly overstepping his boundaries of the Logan Act? He committed election crimes and interference and he's overstayed his visa.

[malaise]

12. Asking serious questions is good

Rec

[Tweedy]

13. You are grieving, not dumb

Yes. People do vote for only one person on the ballot. Sometimes people vote for only one thing on the ballot.

Sadly, most of Mr. Trump’s voters were badly misinformed in our last election. We absolutely need to win the information wars.

[Hope22]

29. The solution is easy....count the paper ballots.

Look the bullets in the eye! Yes it will cost money. So will cleaning up the disaster we are about to experience. Retirement funds alone lost as the market crashes for no good reason. The outcome will be the outcome but we will never know unless we count the ballots.

[MichMan]

38. Have you withdrawn $45,000 from your retirement account and contributed towards a recount?

After the first $41,300 goes to the DNC, they will apply the next $3,300 towards any recount. Once they get enough people to contribute, they can start the recount effort.

Direct from the Harris campaign website.

"A portion of donations made to the Harris Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee authorized by the Harris campaign, the Democratic National Committee and state Democratic parties, will be directed towards a recount effort, according to its fundraising page.

The fundraising page says that the “first $41,300/$15,000 from a person/multicandidate committee (“PAC”) will be allocated to the DNC. The next $3,300/$5,000 from a person/PAC will be allocated to Harris for President's Recount Account."

https://kamalaharris.com/

[keepthemhonestO]

49. They

Already raised over a billion dollars before the election and said they would use a portion of that. They need to use it, they should not need more.
Count the ballots!!

[tritsofme]

55. The money is gone. The ballots were counted. Harris lost.

[keepthemhonestO]

62. They

Were counted by a machine which no one is privy to the algorithm used except the owners of said company. They were counted in the dark, in other words.

[tritsofme]

78. In states largely run by Democrats...Sometimes an election just doesn't turn out like you hope.

[Hope22]

80. Where did they recount.

Where are the results. We have gone into December some elections while the ballots continued to be counted. A recount of the battleground states has not been done! Please post the results here!

[tritsofme]

86. None of the races are close enough. They don't just do them for fun.

Or based on baseless conspiracy theories.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

114. Yep

The billion is gone, and the party is still in debt from this election.

[Hope22]

77. No but I did get 10 texts a day along with dozens of calls a day to send money to VP Harris over the last six months or

more. I did donate every month to multiple Dems. If she needs money to do this she will be the first to ask. This election was a record for funds poured down the drain if they do not do their best to certify the results. . And I would like to say that your comment is garbage. Really what in the actual! I’m old enough to have watched several would be Presidents ask for money but were non existent on the recount commitment. We need a leader and Harris said she would be that. Come out and say what the issues are. Not throwing any more money until we know there is a plan!

[Tweedy]

123. The bullet ballots exist

We know this.

[onenote]

14. How is it being determined how many "bullet ballots" were cast. This still sounds like bullshit.

I have not seen any of the official election sites reporting such information.

Arizona is reporting 3,378,651 ballots in the presidential race and 3,337,566 in the senate race, a difference of 41,085 or 1.2% -- where does 7% come from? And even then, there is no way of knowing whether there were ballots cast in the presidential race, but not the Senate race, but in any of the House races. And, the difference in the number of ballots counted in the presidential and senate races in Arizona in 2024 is almost identical to the difference in the number of ballots counted in the presidential and senate races in 2020 -- 1.216% in 2024 and 1.239% in 2020.

Similarly, Nevada is reporting 1,484,840 ballots in the presidential race and 1,464,728 in the senate race, a difference of 20,112 or 1.35% -- not 5%.

I'm not going to compare you with Q'Anon. But you are blindly accepting and repeating allegations of "bullet ballots" for which there is no factual evidence -- indeed, the facts available resoundingly rebut those allegations.

This has been pointed out several time here. I've said that if someone can provide an explanation as to how anyone came up with these alleged bullet ballot counts and how they can be squared with the actual voting data available, I'm open to hearing it. The ball is in your court.

[Fiendish Thingy]

32. There you go, ruining a perfectly good CT with facts and logic...

And expectations of verifiable evidence.

[onenote]

43. I know. I had the same problem in 2020 when the trumpers were making unsubstantiated claims.

I refused to blindly accept those claims and I won't blindly accept these.

I've repeatedly said i'm open to someone answering the following questions:
How did Spoonamore come up with his number of "bullet ballots"?
How does he explain how his numbers can be squared with the reported difference in the number of total presidential race ballots and the total number of non-presidential race ballots for statewide offices like senate or governor?

No one has even tried to answer those questions. They argue that just making the claim, even though the data doesn't support it, is enough and that the way to get an answer is to hand count every ballot and separate out those that only show a vote for a single contest. Something Spoonamore obviously hasn't done.

[Fiendish Thingy]

51. I have my own theory:

Somehow, maybe with Musk’s help, MTG figured out how to reverse the Jewish Space Lasers so that they flipped Harris votes to Trump.

Prove me wrong.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

119. Here's what I don't understand.

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing against what you've been stating.

But regarding Stephen Spoonamore (a staunch Republican), I don't know what his motive would be in just making this up out of whole cloth if he knew he could easily be proven wrong. Why bother? What does he get out of it by doing that? Plus, he's stated that he's open to being proven wrong by a recount. But he seems to genuinely believe that he'll be proven right that this election was stolen from Harris.

And regarding Spoonamore's letter to Kamala Harris, he wrote this:

I wholly agree with the public letter of Duncan Buell, et. al. of Nov. 13th stating they believe there is a possibility of hacking and calling for hand-recounts. That letter’s clear call to action is commendable, but its cautious tone may belie the severity of what I believe has happened. In my view it is a near certainty the results have been changed at a scale which reversed the US Presidential Election…. A hand recount will most likely show you did win.

So, although Duncan Buell and the other six people involved with the November 13 letter don't think there were shenanigans that changed the outcome of the election, they did cite their reasons that Kamala Harris should request a hand-recount in the states they mentioned. Spoonamore believes that there were shenanigans that did affect the outcome of the election. Where Spoonamore and the others agree is that Harris should request hand-recounts.

Given that our democracy hangs in the balance, arguing back and forth about the credibility of Spoonamore's claim is just a distraction from the more important point: Kamala Harris should request hand-recounts in the battleground states.

There is at least a chance no matter how small that it might keep Trump from regaining power.

Without a hand-recount, Trump will regain the White House for sure and the results will be almost unthinkable in terms of the horror and misery it will inflict on untold millions of people.

[Igel]

149. The implicit claim is that the number of split-ticket ballots must 0.

Why?

Because it must. For the claim to be true.

And the claim must be true. There. QED.

[Loupe Garoue]

157. Not zero

Just a much higher percentage in the swing states.,

https://open.substack.com/pub/spoonamore/p/duty-to-warn-letter-to-vp-harris?selection=0ba74aad-ddcf-4c27-8825-0fe28680c0ee&r=d569l&utm_medium=ios

[MineralMan]

18. So, where did those Arizona and Nevada percentage numbers come from?

You post numbers, but not the sources for those numbers. Can you tell us where the numbers came from. I've seen different numbers, directly from the state's election offices. Are those numbers wrong?

Nobody's calling you Qanon or anything else. But we have questions that remain unanswered.

[onenote]

53. From the publicly available Arizona and Nevada websites.

You'll have to do some math: adding up the total votes cast in the presidential and senate races. Subtracting the latter from the former. And dividing the difference by the number of votes cast in the presidential race.

Here are the links:
Arizona 2024 presidential and Senate: https://results.arizona.vote/#/featured/47/0
Arizona 2020 presidential and Senate: https://results.arizona.vote/#/featured/18/0
In each instance, you'll have click on the "view more" line for each race and then get out your calculator and add up the votes.

Nevada 2024 presidential race: https://silverstateelection.nv.gov/USPresidential/index.shtml
Nevada 2024 senate race: https://silverstateelection.nv.gov/USSenate/#race2

And here's Virginia, in case you want to see a state that Harris won.
https://enr.elections.virginia.gov/results/public/Virginia/elections/2024NovemberGeneral

[MineralMan]

68. Yes. I saw your earlier post.

The numbers weren't even close to what was claimed, as you pointed out. I want to hear from the OP.

I'm asking him.

[onenote]

71. Thanks for the clarification. It would be nice to hear from those accepting Sponamore's claims.

Or from Sponamore himself. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Sympthsical]

73. I get 2.2% for Arizona

There were 2.2% more votes cast for President than Senate candidates.

Checked the numbers several times.

Without know what data this guy is using, how can his claims be verified? Where are his numbers coming from?

The final Arizona tally is not yet certified and published, but you'd need an awful lot of new bullet ballots lurking around somewhere that only this guy apparently knows about.

Edit: I can't read numbers gud. I actually got 1.2% in my calculations from publicly available data.

[onenote]

79. Here's how I got my result. If my math is off, show me how and I'll correct it.

Arizona 2024: Total presidential race votes minus total senate race votes: 3,378,651 minus 3,337,566 = 41,085. Percentage of total presidential votes exceeding total senate votes: 41,085 divided by 3,378,651 = .01216

Arizona 2024: Total presidential race votes minus total senate race votes: 3,397,388 minus 3,355,297 = 42,091. Percentage of total presidential votes exceeding total senate votes: 42,091 divided by 3,397,388 = .01238

Are you using the total number of votes cast in the presidential race or just the number cast for Trump and Harris and excluding 3rd parties? Using the latter would push the percentage up over 2% but wouldn't accurately portray the number of ballots with only the presidential race selected.

[Sympthsical]

83. You're right, I'm wrong

I read 0.987839 as 2.2% difference for some reason when it should be 1.2% (rounded).

I'd just like to point out - because it made me laugh - that you and I just did more to share data sources and methodologies to verify numbers in this exchange of posts than this guy has done so far in all his media appearances.

[onenote]

92. Yep. And it's not as if you have to some super genius to do so.

The data is there for anyone to check.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

88. In post #85

I calculated for four different states - Arizona, Nevada, Utah (red state), and Virginia, (blue state).

As expected, none of this 5% & 7% BS pans out when looking at the actual numbers.

[Sympthsical]

93. I can't replicate any of it

And without knowing where he's pulled his numbers from, no one else can either.

So I guess we're going on faith. Which I'm told is typically how one does math.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

96. It can't be replicated

Because it's bullshit.

[Wiz Imp]

106. That's a good question. Why don't they show us the numbers so we know they are real?

[SCantiGOP]

21. That's not what Occam's Razor says

And the rest of the post doesn’t get any more convincing.

[Straw Man]

22. Stupid.

People don't take the time to vote and only vote for 1 Republican on the ballot, that would be stupid.

Yes, it would. And it is. We're talking about low-information MAGAs here. Don't overestimate them.

[MineralMan]

26. Many voters vote only part of the ballot.

Maybe just one race or a couple. Often, they don't look any further than the races that get lots of publicity, and just skip the rest.

It's difficult, for example, to get good information on a long list of candidates for a local school board. Often there's no advertising at all for those races. So, many people don't vote for anyone on the list.

Same thing applies to things like district judges. This year, all of the judges in my large urban county had to run for re-election. Most were unopposed. Most voters just skip over all of those votes. So, the count of total votes differs from race to race. Every time.

Some vote just for President. Some also vote for a Senator and maybe even a House member. Fewer vote for state legislative candidates. Fewer still for local races, like city council, etc. the number of votes goes down the farther down the ballot you look.

This year the only race that mattered to a heckuva lot of new voters was the Presidency. A good number of people only voted in that race. 1% or 2% wouldn't surprise me at all. Or even more in some cases.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. Did the guest mention

any citations for the 5% & 7% bullet ballot claim?

I've looked online for anything from the states that mention this, and have thus far found nothing. I'd be interested in seeing an actual state entity making this claim or providing this information.

[MineralMan]

24. If there were any good sources for those numbers,

we'd have seen them. Every time this comes up, people ask where the numbers came from. Crickets is all they get as answers.

I suspect they're either made up numbers or some misinterpretation of some numbers. But, we don't know, because nobody will reveal their sources or cite their sources so we can all go check them.

I always wonder about numbers without citations. I don't pay attention to them until they're verified.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

85. Looking at actual numbers tells a different story

I figured it would be pretty easy to calculate the numbers based on the state election sites... As expected, numbers cited on the podcast and then re-posted here are nowhere close to true.

If any of the assumptions I make below are incorrect, or if my math is off, I welcome any and all corrections.

We've been told that the definition of a bullet ballot in this context is one in which there is only a Presidential vote, and no votes for any other race on the ballot.

From the Nevada election site https://silverstateelection.nv.gov/

Votes for President:
Trump 751,205
Harris 705,197
Other 28,438
Total: 1,484,840

So, for Nevada to have 5% of their ballots be bullet ballots in Trump's favor, that means that 37,560 ballots would have had to have a Trump vote only, with no other votes on them.

The Senate race for Nevada recorded a total of 1,464,728 votes, a difference of 20,112 votes. That means that if on those ballots, no other races/questions were voted, the overall "bullet ballot" rate would be 1.35%. If one assumes that every one of those "bullet ballots" was a Trump vote, the rate would increase to 2.68%.

Neither number is near 5%.

OK, but what about Arizona?
From the Arizona election site https://results.arizona.vote/#/featured/47/0

Votes for President:
Trump 1,764,862
Harris 1,577,729
Other 36,060
Total: 3,378,651

So, for Arizona to have 7% of their ballots be bullet ballots in Trump's favor, that means that 123,540 ballots would have had to have a Trump vote only, with no other votes on them.

The Senate race for Arizona recorded a total of 3,337,566 votes, a difference of 41,085 votes. That means that if on those ballots, no other races/questions were voted, the overall "bullet ballot" rate would be 1.22%. If one assumes that every one of those "bullet ballots" was a Trump vote, the rate would increase to 2.33%.

Neither number is near 7%.

OK, but what about Utah? I mean their "bullet ballot" total was way less!

Was it?

From the Utah election site https://app.enhancedvoting.com/results/public/utah/elections/general11052024
Votes for President:
Trump 874,138
Harris 587,646
Other 41,773
Total: 1,473,557

The Senate race for Utah recorded a total of 1,449,577 votes , a difference of 23,980 votes. That means that if on those ballots, no other races/questions were voted, the overall "bullet ballot" rate would be 1.63%. If one assumes that every one of those "bullet ballots" was a Trump vote, the rate would increase to 2.74%.

OK, but Utah is a red state, so they had no need to try to cheat on the vote. I bet there are "bullet ballots" in blue states they wanted to win, like Virginia.

Let's see

From the Virginia election site https://enr.elections.virginia.gov/results/public/Virginia/elections/2024NovemberGeneral
Votes for President:
Trump 2,074,872
Harris 2,334,800
Other 95,424
Total: 4,505,096

The Senate race for Virginia recorded a total of 4,444,713 votes, a difference of 95,424 votes. That means that if on those ballots, no other races/questions were voted, the overall "bullet ballot" rate would be 1.34%. If one assumes that every one of those "bullet ballots" was a Trump vote, the rate would increase to 2.91%

All of this is to say that unless the podcasters are actually providing citations for their numbers, that can be viewed by anyone, they're simply pedaling bullshit to desperate people. In other words, intentional misinformation

[Kid Berwyn]

25. Keep posting, gab!

It feels weird, all right. Shocking to read so many on DU post, “We lost! Move on! Get over it! Nothing was funny about the election.”

It’s as if they don’t remember Russia helped Trump in 2016 and 2020, let alone all the other treasonous crap Trump has done since, such as ordering a mob to attack Congress and threatening to kill his critics, now assisted by the world’s richest person, coincidentally also a friend and supplier of Putin’s.

No matter the results, rationale or data: Fucking feels like a coup, to me.

[HereForTheParty]

41. It feels like a coup because we lost

And the point remains, there is absolutely no evidence for this bullet ballot nonsense. Hearkening back to 2020 doesn't change that.

[Kid Berwyn]

59. No, it's because the GOP steals elections.

1968 - Nixon-Agnew dealt with North Vietnam to sabotage Paris peace talks

1980 - Reagan-Bush dealt with Ayatollah hostage takers

1988 - Bush pardons Weinberger and other Iran-Contra traitors to avoid trial and exposing his own role

2000 - Bush-Cheney count on GOP-leaning Supreme Court to “win” Florida and, thus, US election

2016 - Trump calls on Russia for help to defeat Hillary Clinton

The record is clear: In Presidential election after Presidential election, Republicans get away with treason. And thanks to the SCrOTUS they packed, it’s all been turned legal-like.

And after they “win,” We the People are told to, “Move on.” And the GOP gets away with it, again.

[KS Toronado]

27. I'm sure Biden & Kamala are aware of the Bullet Ballots numbers

and are busy investigating how, when & where to take action. Plus I'm not worried they haven't made
a public statement yet, sometimes timing is everything and I'm sure they have their reasons..

[Fiendish Thingy]

30. You have misquoted Mr. Occam:

From Wikipedia:

In philosophy, Occam's razor (also spelled Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor; Latin: novacula Occami) is the problem-solving principle that recommends searching for explanations constructed with the smallest possible set of elements. It is also known as the principle of parsimony or the law of parsimony (Latin: lex parsimoniae). Attributed to William of Ockham, a 14th-century English philosopher and theologian, it is frequently cited as Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, which translates as "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity",[1][2] although Occam never used these exact words. Popularly, the principle is sometimes paraphrased as "The simplest explanation is usually the best one."[3]

This philosophical razor advocates that when presented with competing hypotheses about the same prediction and both hypotheses have equal explanatory power, one should prefer the hypothesis that requires the fewest assumptions,[4] and that this is not meant to be a way of choosing between hypotheses that make different predictions. Similarly, in science, Occam's razor is used as an abductive heuristic in the development of theoretical models rather than as a rigorous arbiter between candidate models.[5][6]

When you proclaim “something stinks, there’s a good chance it’s rotten”, you are making numerous unspoken assumptions.

When I drive to the ferry terminal, I always smell something rotten and moldy, however, there isn’t anything rotten, it’s just the smell of the cedar lumber mill.

[bluestarone]

31. Look gab, I 100% wish what you, and these others are sayin is true. The simple fact is all we want here is PROOF

On the numbers. Hell i know for a fact that everyone here would be asking for a recount IF numbers are proven. We have some very smart people on this site. Why would you not believe them if the numbers that your source uses cannot be proven. Marc Ellis is no dummy so man please find the PROOF and come back with it.

[Speaks2]

35. No Comparison

2020 deniers take election theft as a matter of faith. They provided no evidence and offered no opportunity to refute their position. Basically, they said "these things are possible" and "everyone knows Dems cheated." QED

In 2024, we're not doing that. We're being offered a means of testing the hypothesis that theft occurred and a way to refute the mechanism being conjectured.

That's a completely different thing!

[HereForTheParty]

44. What supports this hypothesis that there was cheating.

Nm

[keepthemhonestO]

36. I know this stinks

Thank you for keeping this topic front and center.
I think the people on our side naysaying this, are very naive. It's trump, it's the highest office in the land I am no statistician or mathematical genius but you don't have to in order to see all of these irregularities. Slap!!

For the last four years, I would cringe when I heard the Democrats saying we have secure elections blah blah blah. Democrats need to wake the fuck up and stop taking this lying down.

These ballots are being counted in secret( in a box) that we don't know how they are counted, also we are one of the few " Democracies " ( if we can use that anymore) to not hand count. Sorry it takes to fucking long to hand count in order to preserve our Democracy. Ahh well it's too late.

[Doodley]

66. Good points. Welcome to DU!

[keepthemhonestO]

140. Was

That welcome to little ole me? I've been here 24 years or so, mostly just ghost read. Used to be keepthemhonest but got locked out

Thanks btw. ☺️

[EdmondDantes_]

39. And how smart would it be of these devious hackers to not add votes in races that would help Trump?

Also the guy has never said where he got the number of bullet ballots. His numbers in North Carolina don't make sense for example. He claims 350,000 of them, but the difference between the presidential race and the governor's race was fewer than 90,000 votes.

[Viz]

40. Hand counts will be coming

There have been 2 raids since the election. One was executed by an agency of DOD, DO, CIA and IRS called Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) on a prominent Trump supporter whose business and home were raided. DCIS focuses on Defense related and cyber security, and terrorism funding. The second raid was for the Polymarket founder, who ran the organization that was betting on the election. We heard about them during the last days of the campaign as their bets were being covered along with the latest poll results.

I suspect that both VP Harris and President Biden are working a sting operation as they investigate the fraudsters.
Let's see what happens with the hand recounts required by PA law for the Senate race. The recount must start by Nov 20 and end by Nov 26.

[MichMan]

116. It's not a hand recount

What to Know

The U.S. Senate election in Pennsylvania between Democratic incumbent Sen. Bob Casey and Republican David McCormick is headed for a statewide recount, as counties continued Wednesday to sort through outstanding ballots and the campaigns jousted over which ones should count.

A noon deadline passed Wednesday for Casey to waive his right to a statewide recount and Secretary of State Al Schmidt, a Republican, announced that preliminary results had triggered a legally required statewide recount.

Counties must begin the recount no later than Nov. 20 and must finish by noon on Nov. 26. It largely involves running paper ballots through high-speed scanners, a process that former election officials say might not change the outcome by more than a few hundred votes.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/decision-2024/pa-senate-contest-recount/4027882/

[Viz]

42. Yes I agree....

There have been 2 raids since the election. One was executed by an agency of DOD, DOJ, CIA and IRS called Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) on a prominent Trump supporter whose business and home were raided. DCIS focuses on Defense related and cyber security, and terrorism funding. The second raid was for the Polymarket founder, who ran the organization that was betting on the election. We heard about them during the last days of the campaign as their bets were being covered along with the latest poll results.

I suspect that both VP Harris and President Biden are working a sting operation as they investigate the fraudsters.
Let's see what happens with the hand recounts required by PA law for the Senate race. The recount must start by Nov 20 and end by Nov 26.

[HereForTheParty]

132. How are they linked to fake ballots?

Do you have links or names? I mean, your first one is just identified as a "Trump supporter".

[Think. Again.]

45. K&R

[Orange Buffoon]

47. A friend of mine was a poll watcher in Grand Rapids...

in a conservative area. She was astounded to see voter after voter come in, mark their ballot for Trump only, then leave without filling out the rest of it.

[oldmanlynn]

56. A pole watcher isn't directly watching how people are voting, right

I don’t think that that would be allowed for a pole watcher to sit there and look over voters shoulder

[yellowdogintexas]

65. They are not allowed to encroach on the voter's space.

As an Election Judge, I can throw them out if they do. They know this when they come in; we have a required class for poll watchers, and they have to present their certifications to the Judge. They can ask us questions about our process but they can't talk to voters or get near enough to see anything

[Orange Buffoon]

84. I think she came to that conclusion judging by the minimal time they spent

[oldmanlynn]

52. If Trump and the Republicans did cheat in this way

Not catching it on this election is going to make it a higher probability of this happening again in the future and so if we don’t ask for a recount now and catch it then it’s gonna happen again in 2028

[brush]

69. Agreed. Should be investigated. I remain coninced that no way did trump win every swing state legitimately.

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2024, 07:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Again, investigate how 'bullet ballots' and their one vote got included in the tabulations.

The fact that only one ballot slot, the presidency for trump, was the only one filled out should raise the eye brows of everyone...especially Harris voters.

What's an investigation going to hurt?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

115. Why should it raise eyebrows?

It happened in states that weren't battlegrounds, and I'm betting it's happened in previous elections as well.

[brush]

129. It's not that complicated. The battleground states are where the deciding Electoral College votes are.

That's why they're called the battleground states. They are where who gets the WH is decided as blue states and red states are mostly always secuely in the Democratic Party and rethug party columns.

Understand now?

[wryter2000]

72. A hand count is not unreasonable

However, I have no trouble believing that lots of brain dead MAGAts only bothered to vote for Trump. They would be more eager to do it in swing states. They might get their friends to do the same.

[MichMan]

117. Who is going to pay for it?

Recounts are expensive and hand recounts especially so. The states aren't going to foot the bill, so it would be up to the Harris campaign and the DNC. Both have just announced staff layoffs and terminations in a cost cutting move.

If they don't believe that it will change anything, they see no need to throw more money down a black hole.

[Dr. Strange]

74. I don't understand what you think this hand count is supposed to do.

So you start recounting, and then you come up on one of these bullet ballots: someone voted for Trump and no one/nothing else. Are you going to refuse to count that vote because you don't like what the voter did? Are you going to challenge the ballot, and if so, on what basis?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

94. Exactly

A hand recount would do nothing that I can see.

And if the idea is that a hand recount would find that there are many fewer votes actually cast than were included in the count, then the assumption would have to be that every precinct and central election office was in on it, because physical ballots have to be accounted for, and the number of ballots used and the counts submitted have to match.

[FakeNoose]

75. Bullet ballots aren't illegal

It would be very expensive and time-consuming to do hand counts in the several states where we have questions. What would we learn? Some voters came to vote only for Chump and nobody else. We have no way to know what party or even if they're in a party. Probably many aren't, and I'm guessing that they are not frequent voters.

It doesn't give enough reason to overturn the election, based on bullet balloting alone.

[polichick]

76. Thank-you! Harris MUST take this seriously - everything is on the line!

[ananda]

81. On your side all the way!

Let's prove it one way or another.

[Oliver Bolliver Butt]

82. the problem with your argument

"People don't take the time to vote and only vote for 1 Republican on the ballot, that would be stupid."

What is the single most likely characteristic of Trump's base voter?

[soandso]

89. Some numbers

I took some random states, some swing states and some not, and compared the difference between the number of votes for president to the number of votes in their senate races. I used Decision Desk for the latest totals.

California

Presidential Votes: 15,104,778
Senate Votes: 14,638,283
Percentage Difference: ((15,104,778 - 14,638,283) / 15,104,778) * 100 ≈ 3.09%

Arizona

Presidential Votes: 3,378,651
Senate Votes: 3,337,566
Percentage Difference: ((3,378,651 - 3,337,566) / 3,378,651) * 100 ≈ 1.22%

New Mexico

Presidential Votes: 923,319
Senate Votes: 903,201
Percentage Difference: ((923,319 - 903,201) / 923,319) * 100 ≈ 2.18%

Minnesota

Presidential Votes: 3,242,938
Senate Votes: 3,186,151
Percentage Difference: ((3,242,938 - 3,186,151) / 3,242,938) * 100 ≈ 1.75%

Wisconsin

Presidential Votes: 3,415,154
Senate Votes: 3,387,420
Percentage Difference: ((3,415,154 - 3,387,420) / 3,415,154) * 100 ≈ 0.81%

Washington

Presidential Votes: 3,845,914
Senate Votes: 3,752,419
Percentage Difference: ((3,845,914 - 3,752,419) / 3,845,914) * 100 ≈ 2.43%

Texas

Presidential Votes: 11,559,607
Senate Votes: 11,269,112
Percentage Difference: ((11,559,607 - 11,269,112) / 11,559,607) * 100 ≈ 2.51%

Pennsylvania

Presidential Votes: 7,025,367
Senate Votes: 6,953,319
Percentage Difference: ((7,025,367 - 6,953,319) / 7,025,367) * 100 ≈ 1.03%

Virginia

Presidential Votes: 4,482,075
Senate Votes: 4,436,419
Percentage Difference: ((4,482,075 - 4,436,419) / 4,482,075) * 100 ≈ 1.02%

Ohio

Presidential Votes: 5,647,668
Senate Votes: 5,585,865
Percentage Difference: ((5,647,668 - 5,585,865) / 5,647,668) * 100 ≈ 1.09%


As you can see, the swing states did NOT have a greater %age difference in top of the ticket and down ballot. In fact, it's California (blue state) that has the greatest discrepancy and Wisconsin (swing state) the lowest.

https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/2024/General/President/
https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/2024/General/US-Senate/

[MadameButterfly]

139. I see different numbers on Daily Kos article

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/11/17/2286795/-Senate-Election-Results-and-the-Search-for-Bullet-Ballots-Day-11

though he comes to the same conclusion you do.
Another post claims number of bullets ballots were not high in NC, but that is one of the swings states that are high in the Daily Kos article. Along with Nevada.

I don't know why everyone's numbers are different.

[soandso]

141. I would go with Decision Desk

or AP, which are usually identical and constantly updated in real time.

[Mr.Bee]

95. B T W

At almost TWO weeks after the election California still hasn't finished counting the votes, 93%, but Kamala is still way ahead, 58.8% to rotted pumpkin 38.1%.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

97. It's ridiculous

that a state as advanced as California takes two weeks to count ballots.

[soandso]

100. I brought that up

and was punished with my post hidden so beware.

[Sympthsical]

107. It's because we changed to mail

16 million people voting, most of them by mail. First you have to wait for them to all come in. A ballot can arrive up to 7 days after election day and be counted. Then they have to be sorted through. And there can be so many errors that involve curing. Like no signatures, using the wrong envelopes, etc. etc.

You want people to be more participant in elections, but it's created this massive headache when it comes to counting, because tabulation, verifying, ruling out duplicates, etc. is an extremely thorough and tedious process they go through. And statute gives the state a long time to do this. I think the curing deadline is like Dec. 1st and other stuff is 30 days after election.

So they're not exactly being prodded to get it done quickly.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

110. Are the permitted to start processing them prior to election day?

I know in Virginia, and in Florida as well, mail-in ballots are processed as they come in, beginning in September here in Virginia...as the mail-in ballots are validated, they are put through the tabulators, but they can't actually access the vote counts until election day. Our ballots have to arrive by noon on the Friday after election, with a postmark NLT election day.

Mail-in ballots can also be dropped off at any precinct on election day. Once the polls close, the very first thing that is done is two poll workers, one from each party, opens the drop-box, count the number of envelopes in the drop box, provide that number to the precinct chief, put the envelopes in a sealed envelope that they and the precinct chief initial, then drive together to drop those ballots at the county election office. Those ballots are then processed while they wait for the individual precincts to shut down and start submitting their numbers.

[LilElf70]

98. I don't trust anything that MAY be associated with the con man

He made a name for himself. I see him living up to that name.

[ConcernedCitizen1776]

99. Steven Spoonamore on The Thom Hartmann Program Live (11/18/2024) - 02:16:30 - 02:28:45

Steven Spoonamore on The Thom Hartmann Program Live (11/18/2024) - 02:16:30 - 02:28:45 -

https://www.youtube.com/@thomhartmann/videos

https://www.thomhartmann.com/

Stephen Spoonamore - Duty to Warn Letter - to VP Harris - Re: Election 2024 - Nov 15, 2024 - https://substack.com/home/post/p-151721941

[ultralite001]

101. Thom Hartmann Live - Spoonamore interview - 11/18/2024

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2024, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

2024 United States elections

[link:https://www.youtube.com/live/5s4iCxtf_Js

The Spoonamore interview is in the third hour at the 2:16:23 mark on the video.

Fascinating stuff...

[muriel_volestrangler]

105. In Nevada in 2020, the total votes for House Reps was 96.5% of the votes for President; in 2024, 96.1%

So that's not a huge difference.

Sources:
https://www.nvsos.gov/silverstate2020gen/USPresidential/
https://silverstateelection.nv.gov/USPresidential/

2020 House Rep races:
223213 137868 74490 6190 4665
382673 216078 155780 10815
417252 203421 190975 12315 10541
332469 168457 152284 7978 3750
1355607

2020 Pres votes:
1405376 703486 669890 14783 14079 3138

2024 House Rep races:
322899 167885 143650 3321 2736 2711 2596
399584 219919 144064 19784 15817
372388 191304 181084
332206 174926 148061 4919 4300
1427077

2024 Pres votes:
1484840 751205 705197 19625 6059 2754

1355607/1405376 = 96.5%; 1427077/1484840 = 96.1%

So why is a rate of 3.9% voting for president but not a rep suspicious to you in 2024, but 3.5% in 2020 wasn't? Is that really a big enough difference to "stink"?

[krkaufman]

126. Kinda undercut your argument with that last sentence...

People don't take the time to vote and only vote for 1 Republican on the ballot, that would be stupid.

... given that is a prime characteristic of the likely Trump voter.

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/400572/its-the-stupid-stupid.html (ref'd IPSOS poll)

[SheltieLover]

127. K&R

[Progressive dog]

136. Building computer hardware is an entirely

different field than statistics pertaining to elections, isn't it? He needs to provide real data, not just claims.
Do the states report how many bullet ballots? I don't think so.

[Nimble_Idea]

137. bullet ballots are bs - they fucking made it too rig to big alright - the biggest rig of all time.

[hurple]

138. As an election judge in a county that went 82% trump... in 2020

I can say there ARE lots of MAGAt voters who vote ONLY for trump and walk. These are typically the HARD CORE cultists and they are there for one reason and one reason only, to put god-emperor Trump on the throme where he belongs, "seig hiel."

They usually don't know anything about any other race and ignore them completely. Even local.

They are morons and absolutely look the part.

[JR11]

145. Critical

It should be of grave concern as to just how secure/monitored all state ballots are, and have been these last few weeks. What's even more vital is there should be eagle-eyed scrutiny involving all individuals responsible for the handling and safekeeping of every ballot.

It should be vitally important to everyone as to just how resigned most have been in regard to those final results. Has it not been utter chaos following Trump's every move now for the last 10 years?

I was shouting from the rooftops, leading up to the election, about how our very institutions of Trust and principles were the very things the nature of this Trumpian way has been exploiting all along the way! In Trump's world, he refers to the faithful and trusting as suckers and losers. Does anyone get that? Do you get it now?

Why this worldclass racket has been so successful is because of all the misinformational, highly polarizing, sleaze-propaganda thats been algorithmically propagated via social media in regard to the Maga/Qanon movement, over this last decade. And yes... The Russians played a strong hand in that very thing! It has been indoctrinating so many devotees to the point of subversion. There are literally millions of people devoted to emotionally charged false information, they could be present in any situation or employment stratosphere. They're peppered all throughout society. That they may have infiltrated the institutions of our free and fair elections, should be up for consideration.

[Clouds Passing]

146. Whats the harm of doing a hand recount in the swing states. Dump got his, why can't Kamala have hers?

Why are the Ds so willing to give away our democracy without a question?

[MichMan]

148. It costs millions of dollars for recounts is why. Hand recounts are even more expensive

Costs which have to be paid by whomever has standing to request one.

Why throw more money down a black hole?

[Clouds Passing]

150. To save our democracy! Like its not worth that!?

[MichMan]

153. You need to call the Harris campaign and tell them you are paying for all of it n/t

[Clouds Passing]

154. Why such hate MichMan?

[MichMan]

155. Because recounts are very expensive and at best only change a few hundred or so votes

For example, Trump is leading Harris by 80,000 votes in Michigan with a margin of 1.4%

The margin of victory in the Franken/Coleman Minnesota Senate race in 2008 was 0.01%

I've seen post after post saying that there should be a recount "because" and "why not", yet people are expecting someone else to foot the bill. Easy to spend someone else's money on something that has zero hope of succeeding. Might as well throw it in a black hole.

[Clouds Passing]

156. Great reason to hate

[JR11]

147. Informational Warfare

If you haven't figured it out by now, the internet has been weaponized with electronically enhanced psychological warfare... and it's been employed where it counts... in matters of power and position.

[Jeebo]

151. I'm all for a recount ...

... but, we all have to know that it's a Hail Mary at this point.

— Ron

[kimbutgar]

152. I agree I took a coding class years ago and this computer tabulation stinks

And I remember that one could change how things are tabulated by coding software.

I agree we need a hand recount in those swing states. It’s just too coincidental he won all of them. If we don’t catch them now they will perfect and do it going forward and maintain total control.

And I just can’t believe the American people Black, Hispanic, Muslim and Asian people went for him when all he did was attack minorities.

[garybeck]

159. Do we know these numbers are correct?

I've seen people question the numbers from Spoonamore, but not any solid response or confirmation.

[Chadarius]

161. If it sounds like a duck...

We will compare you to Q. This is conspiracy drivel. We have all had quite enough. 10 million people that needed to vote, just didn't. Plain and simple. THAT is Occam's Razor.

FYI, there are millions people that "built their own hardware". That is also drivel. I'm not impressed.