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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(115,154 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 08:33 PM 7 hrs ago

Doctors say Bobby Brainworm's anti-Ozempic stance perpetuates stigma and misrepresents evidence

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has pledged to tackle high rates of chronic diseases such as diabetes and obesity as President-elect Donald Trump’s pick to lead the US Department of Health and Human Services. They’re goals that many in the public health world find themselves agreeing with — despite fearing what else the infamous anti-vaccine activist may do in the post.

Just don’t suggest that he tackle those goals with medications like Ozempic.

“They’re counting on selling it to Americans because we’re so stupid and so addicted to drugs,” Kennedy said in an appearance with Fox News’ Greg Gutfeld that he posted to Instagram last month, concluding that Ozempic, a wildly popular medicine approved to treat type 2 diabetes and used off-label for weight loss, is not going to “Make America Healthy Again.”

Kennedy claimed that Novo Nordisk, which makes Ozempic, doesn’t market the medicine in its home country of Denmark, where “they do not recommend it for diabetes or obesity; they recommend dietary and behavioral changes.”

In fact, Denmark does use Ozempic, so much so that the Danish Medicines Agency said in May that it would restrict its use until after people had tried less expensive medications to treat diabetes. Instead of a shift to eschew medication in favor of lifestyle changes, as Kennedy suggested, it was a cost-cutting move, since more than 100,000 people had received the drug or others in its class, known as GLP-1 receptor agonists.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctors-rfk-jr-anti-ozempic-120048957.html

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Doctors say Bobby Brainworm's anti-Ozempic stance perpetuates stigma and misrepresents evidence (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin 7 hrs ago OP
I do understand that Ozempic has side effects... ananda 7 hrs ago #1
Don't touch my Ozempic MustLoveBeagles 6 hrs ago #2
"Bobby Brainworm" - his own legacy UTUSN 6 hrs ago #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Ms. Toad 6 hrs ago #4
The United States treats T2 diabetes as a byproduct of obesity, Ms. Toad 4 hrs ago #5
Covid gave me Type 2, unfortunately I tried Ozempic JCMach1 3 hrs ago #6
I'm not interested in either Ozempic or Jardiance. Ms. Toad 2 hrs ago #7

ananda

(30,804 posts)
1. I do understand that Ozempic has side effects...
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 08:46 PM
7 hrs ago

but maybe diabetes is worse.

It may be too difficult for some people to change
their dietary and lifestyle habits, so Ozempic is
their best choice.

Who am I to judge? My grandmother got type 2
diabetes when she got old, and it was horrible.
She was totally unable to change her diet, even
after the doctor told her to.

I'm sorry someone as insane as RFK is in charge
of HHS.

This is just going to be one of many decisions that
will impact people's health in a negative way.

God help us all.

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Ms. Toad

(35,505 posts)
5. The United States treats T2 diabetes as a byproduct of obesity,
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 12:07 AM
4 hrs ago

and depending on how one views obesity either treats those with disease as gluttons who have absolutely no self-control (so medication is the only solution - and why bother recommending lifestyle changes since there's not a chance those gluttons would follow it) - or - the other extreme (the RFK position - stop giving them the easy way out - force them to make lifestyle changes.

The reality is that T2 diabetes is, almost certainly, many many different diseases - which have both different configurations of causes/predispositions and many different models for treatment.

Unfortunately, virtually all doctors in the US pay lip service to lifestyle changes (largely following the ADA guidelines which don't come close to a diet low enough in in carbs to control diabetes) and then shovel medicine at it. From my perspective - as a general concept - that model is no better and perhaps worse than the RFK model.

Fun facts: There are two people in my immediate household who have T2 diabetes.

Both are around 5'2. Both both are over 65. Both are treated by the same doctor.

The weight of one varies between 165 and 185 - the weight of the other varies between 110 and 120.
One is/has been on Jardiance, Januvia, 2Kg/day of Metformin, statins and blood pressure medication; the other takes 500g-1Kg/day of Metformin.
The most recent A1C for one is 8.3, and for the other 6.2.
One has a single ancestor with T2 Diabetes. For the other every single descendent of one grandparent has developed diabetes once they hit about 65.

If you were to try to assign each of those 4 variables to one or the other of the two people in my household, based on common prejudices, very few would get it right.

My spouse is between 110 and 120. She has a single ancestor with T2 diabetes. While on Jardiance, Januvia and Metformin, her A1c was 8.3, and she takes statins, and blood pressure medication.

My grandfather, mother, uncle, three cousins and I all have diabetes. Our weights range from a BMI of below 18.5 (underweight) to 30.2 (obese). Most are in the "low-normal" range. The only medication I take for diabetes is Metformin. Until I had COVID, I took 500 grams/day and my A1C was around 6.0, sometimes lower. Post COVID I take 1000 grams of Metformin and my A1C has averaged higher than before COVID. I don't take statins or blood pressure medication. My blood pressure is normal. My cholesterol runs high, but the ratio for total cholesterol to LDL falls below what is normally considered normal (meaning a lower risk of heart risk). But more on that below.

Diabetes is also viewed as universally a major cardiac risk - significant enough that doctors are threatened with being downgraded by their insurance companies if they don't automatically put their diabetic patients on statins and blood pressure medication, regardless of an individualized assessment of risk.

My doctor has been pushing statins at me for quite a while. I have zero history of heart disease (even with so many ancestors with diabetes). A risk calculation on any of the risk calculators available that does not automatically insist that anyone with diabetes needs to be on a statin puts my personal risk at the level that the doctor should start a conversation with me about statins. BUT - that's not how it works in our country. Individual assessments of risk are banned, once you have diabetes. (I don't like the risk profile of statins unless I am at significant risk for heart disease - and my doctor has never been willing to discuss the matter with me without using the "but you have diabetes" justification as a trump card so I've had to do my own evaluation using the tools available on line.)

I finally got a cardiac calcification score to get him off my back. I have zero cardiac artery calcification. Taking diabetes into account - WITHOUT FACTORING IN the actual status of my arteries puts my heart at slightly older than my chronological age. Taking my diabetes AND the actual status of my arteries into account, my heart is 14 years younger than my chronological age.

So much for diabetes being a slam dunk for heart disease. The upside may be that my doctor may start doing individual risk assessments. Nah, he was shocked, but I'm sure it will take more than one exception to shake him up.

So - I'm not mad at there being voices that challenge the mantra that all diabetics ate themselves into this, and have such poor self-control that we ought to just throw medication at them. But - the other extreme isn't good either. Our little n=2 family includes two very different forms of the disease, two very different responses to diet, two very different responses to medication, and at least somewhat different impact on cardiac health. I'm sure there are many more, and doctors who treat all of us the same are doing a disservice.

JCMach1

(28,065 posts)
6. Covid gave me Type 2, unfortunately I tried Ozempic
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 01:15 AM
3 hrs ago

For about 9 months. The side effects for me were not nice at all.

I literally quit it and went back to Jardiance which works very well and protects me a bit from the heart issues Covid also left.

Ms. Toad

(35,505 posts)
7. I'm not interested in either Ozempic or Jardiance.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 01:49 AM
2 hrs ago

I don't like the risk profile for either one. Ozempic doesn't work in a way that is likely to be helpful to me. I can't say I've ever felt hungry - my eating is emotionally driven, not satiation or lack thereof. (I fasted for two days ahead of my colonoscopy a week ago - and although I had to keep reminding myself to not pop stuff in my mouth, the urge was from habit rather than hunger. And I'm constantly asking for later fasting blood draws, and when they ask if I'm sure I'll be OK fasting that long, I make a point of looking at my phone - checking the time - usually between 3 and 4, and inform them I haven't yet eaten anything so I'm pretty sure I can fast well past 9 am.) I've already got a slow-emptying gall bladder and some gut dysbiosis - thanks to COVID. I don't need to mess my GI system up any more than it already is for something that isn't likely to work for me anyway.

Jardiance really messed my spouse up. She needed something stronger than Metformin (she was spiking to 3-400 multiple times daily), so our doc put her on Jardiance. She'd go to the bathroom the very last thing before she left her office and most could barely make it the few steps from her car to the bathroom without wetting herself (and sometimes she couldn't make it that far). And it gave her nearly continuous yeast infections. Given that response, she was at risk for one of the more severe (and terrifying) side effects of Jardiance: Fournier's gangrene. So far, Januvia is a lot easier on her - and after she was on it her blood glucose started to get better. She has a blood draw tomorrow, so we'll know by tomorrow night how much better.

Glad you found something that works for you!

I'm still struggling to get back to completely normal A1C post-COVID. I used to be able to keep my blood glucose within normal range simply by eating fewer than 21 net carbs in a 2 hour period. But now sometimes I'm still at 160 (from dawn phenomenon) by mid-afternoon even though I haven't anything to eat since the night before. And sometimes eating even 10 net carbs will bump me up to 200 (even though double that amount never bumped me past 140 pre-COVID). It's close enough to normal that my doctor won't push very hard for something more than Metformin. If I decide I'm not happy where they are, I'll probably ask if I can use insulin (just the simple stuff you can buy over the counter inexpensively), rather than any of the other diabetes drugs on the market. Far fewer side effects, since it just supplements what our bodies are already trying to do.

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