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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn the 1700's a native American shaman said in time the US will be no more due to corruption in government
Looks like he might have been correct
Goonch
(4,559 posts)
3Hotdogs
(15,225 posts)ColoringFool
(507 posts)3Hotdogs
(15,225 posts)wnylib
(25,482 posts)I have read it. It is an excellent, logically laid out comparison of values and beliefs that puts Nat8ve religion on an equal footing with Christianity. It was his response to missionaries who sought permission to proselytize among the Seneca people.
Red Jacket was a great orator. That speech could be summarized by a message in the Christian Bible, "By their fruits you will know them." He ends the speech with the comment that they will observe the White missionaries to see how they live before giving an answer to their request.
(One of my grandmother's Seneca ancestors was related to Red Jacket.)
wnylib
(25,482 posts)It's a common thing. When somebody wants to sound like they have a profound message, they attribute it to some supposedly mystical Native American.
3Hotdogs
(15,225 posts)Purported to tell the story of a boy who was orphaned and raised by his grandmother. I believe they were supposed to be Cherokee. And it told of folk stories, nature survival hints and Native American values. The book was used in classrooms and won awards.
The book was written by Asa Carter, under the pen name, Forest Carter. Asa Carter was the speechwriter for George Wallace who wrote Wallace's speech, Segregation now, segregation forever,
Sympthsical
(10,928 posts)Before making most major decisions. It's how I got into Nvidia stock. Bones and egg shells.
The Noble Savage trope is always so . . . cringingly patronizingly racist.
And think of how it endures when any other religion is viewed skeptically. No, no. This magic sky spirit is different!
Yeah yeah. I once watched shaman try to shake rattles and smoke at cancer.
It went exactly as expected.
Mix in how much of this spirituality and religion is mostly made up and sold to westerners as enlightened gaia spiritualism. A lot of Native cultures were completely erased during the genocides and the plagues. Entire histories wiped out to the point that a lot of the traditions and religious beliefs died out in the 17th and 18th centuries. Old people don't do so well in a pandemic, and that's where the bulk of oral history was kept. Not a lot of it endured.
Which leaves a great, big massive hole through which grifters could enter. And boy howdy did they. To the unfortunate gullibility of spiritually starved westerners who are just wandering around New Mexico trying to feel something.
wnylib
(25,482 posts)spirituality are White European Anericans who claim to have studied under a "great shaman" who taught them all the "secrets" of Native spiritual power. It's BS of course.
True, a lot of customs, beliefs, legends,and languages were lost and some whole tribal nations were wiped out. But despite attempts to wipe out all Native people through conquest and destroy their cultures through boarding schools, a remarkable amount of culture survived considering the circumstances.
Example: Once forced onto reservations, Native people were forbidden by law from practicing their religions. Fort commanders and Indian commissioners did not understand that, in many Native cultures, circle dances are sacred, a form of prayer. They thought that all such dances were war dances. So some Native cultures got around that by celebrating Native festivals on Christian holidays or saints' days. They dressed in Euro-American clothing with a few of their own sacred cultural symbols included in the form of a bracelet or woven into a woman's shawl or a man's shirt. The soldiers who controlled the rez did not know the meaning of the symbols, but the knowledge was passed on to the younger people who helped elders prepare for the celebration.
So a supposed Christmas celebration might actually have been a disguised sacred winter solstice festival.
Navajo is still widely spoken in AZ and NM on the rez.
In NY, The Seneca are actively revitalizing their language for everyday use. Much of it was preserved in the early 1800s by a missionary couple, Asher and Laura Wright, who developed a written form of Seneca and translated hymns and parts of the Bible into Seneca. Laura wrote down several Seneca legends to preserve them. While most missionaries did great harm to Native cultures, the Wrights respected the culture. Their niece married a Seneca man and his grandson became a NY State archeologist and ethnologist. He became director of a cultural museum at Rochester, NY where he collected several cultural artifacts and published numerous papers on Seneca customs, practices, food recipes, etc. He was only 1/4 Seneca biologically but ineligible for tribal membership because this Seneca heritage was through his father and they are matrilineal. But, due to his service to the Seneca nation, he was adopted into a clan.
I am familiar with that background because that Seneca archeologist, Arthur Parker, was a contemporary of my paternal grandparents and a distant cousin to my grandmother, who also had mixed Seneca and English Ancestry. He and my grandmother shared a common ancestor who, in the very late 1700s and early 1800s developed a religion that preserved Seneca festivals and traditions while integrating some Euro-American customs.
I agree completely with your statement about the inherent racism in the noble savage image of Native Americans. Unfortinateky, many non Natives who reject the noble savage characterization often just drop the noble part and revert back to just plain savage. I had a history professor who did that.
They are just people like any other people whose cultures, even when altered by another culture, still have some distnctive characteristics and perspectives on life.
Regarding shaman, Native Americans resist that term. They prefer medicine man or sometimes medicine woman or just healer. A true medicine man studies several years, like an apprentice, under an older, established practitioner before taking on the role. They do not sell their knowledge in classes for outsiders. They do not charge fees for a sweat lodge, which is sacred.
There are some younger Native people who do not know their own culture and get caught up in a phony facsimile promoted by non Natives.
Sympthsical
(10,928 posts)And the kind of content I wish there was more of on DU.
I was, of course, being a bit flip about how white people and others treat Native cultures like a buffet to be dipped into when it seems appetizing at the time. I've spent a lot of time in Berkeley, which seems to be ground zero for white appropriation of Native culture where they treat it almost as a collection of spiritual tchotchkes to be gathered before solemnly letting you know it makes them evolved beings possessed of deep and innate ancient wisdom.
And then your eyes roll out of your head so hard, the brain goes with them.
That stuff drives me cra-azy, because the actual cultures are so fascinating all by themselves. I try to stay away from these conversations nowadays after getting into it with a (white) friend over the two-spirit business (don't ask). But whenever "Ancient shaman once said . . ." crops up, an eyelid twitches, because I see those Berkeley people in my head.
wnylib
(25,482 posts)who claim to have developed a deep spiritual connection to the cosmos by appropriating their own haphazard interpretations of various Native cultures mishmashed together. They are not limited to CA. I have encountered them in my home state of PA and here in NY state.
I was annoyed over the ridiculous hoopla regarding the year 2012 and the Mayan calendar. Just because no Mayans continued to lay out the calendar beyond 2012, New Age nutcases went into a dither about ancient Mayan "wisdom" that supposedly foresaw the end of the world.
Sympthsical
(10,928 posts)Where they seemingly forgot to tell Woody Harrelson they were filming.
Meanwhile the rest of us were standing around wishing Polymarket had been invented.
wnylib
(25,482 posts)Stargazer99
(3,504 posts)Renew Deal
(84,843 posts)cstanleytech
(28,356 posts)edhopper
(37,238 posts)to many things wrong with the narrative.
RoseTrellis
(149 posts)Id say we are actually doing better than average. The typical duration of nation-states, or more broadly, political regimes and countries, is often cited by historians and political scientists as being between 200 and 250 years. This timeframe is commonly associated with significant, transformative upheavals in government, rather than the complete erasure of a culture or population.