My bet: The felon has deteriorated too much to be cognizant of the humiliation.

[pat_k]

If the psychopathic malignant narcissist still had his faculties, I just don't see him sucking up such a gargantuan loss -- particularly a loss that results in endless and scathing condemnation of his "deal" and elevates the wisdom of the "deal" made by his nemesis Obama, which he tore to shreds.

[lame54]

1. Win or lose...

Sell it as a yuge win
Always winning

[pat_k]

4. When a person has no memory of what's happening hour-to-hour, it becomes even easier to confabulate to match fantasies.

He's been constructing his own reality his whole life. But reality has a nasty way of inserting itself into consciousness. I don't think that's a problem for him anymore.

[RockRaven]

2. In addition to cognitive factors, he may be more insulated than he used to be.

Fewer people around him willing to say, or allow him to hear, things which would make ketchup fly.

[underpants]

7. He is but he still knows.

He still seeks out mentions of himself. He had to see the NY TIMES editorial yesterday “Trump Lost Thus War”.

And I hope it stews in that brain of his for the rest of his life.

[pat_k]

23. If his short-term memory is shot to hell, as I suspect.....

...the minutes of rage at each condemnation will be short lived. When attention is drawn elsewhere, the reality he confronted will float off to be replaced by confabulated fantasies of greatness.

Or he may just keep raging, losing track of the reason and confabulating a reason that fits what he is feeling.

[surfered]

3. He's always been shameless, especially at lying.

[pat_k]

5. He's constructed his own reality his whole life, but reality has a nasty way of inserting itself.

I don't think that's a problem for him any more. He now lives in a 100% fantasy world.

[maxsolomon]

6. He has always been shameless - because of his NPD.

That's what keeps him insulated - not any dementia.

[pat_k]

10. Perhaps this is just another loss to be denied, but it feels different.

Roy Cohn taught him well (link)

. . .
. . Cohn imparted an M.O. that’s been on searing display throughout Trump’s ascent, his divisive, captivating campaign, and his fraught, unprecedented presidency. Deflect and distract, never give in, never admit fault, lie and attack, lie and attack, publicity no matter what, win no matter what, all underpinned by a deep, prove-me-wrong belief in the power of chaos and fear.
. . .

What feels different about this is that I think his NPD would have had him endlessly screaming at his "negotiation team" to get a better deal. And when they did not, he would have cast himself as the "strongman" holding out for that better deal.

The thing is, this is just too public and obviously humiliating a loss. It's not like a lost election that he can scream "rigged" about. It's not like a secret lawsuit settlement he can claim was a "win." This is a gargantuan loss and humiliating deal on the world stage that his is publicly walking into. Mechanisms for denying that reality are pretty non-existent.

[maxsolomon]

16. I hope you're right.

Hopefully he's catching an earful at the G7.

I suspect he's avoiding all the other leaders, so he doesn't have to hear a contrary word about his stupid fucking war.

[pat_k]

22. If my guess is right and his short-term memory is shot to hell...

...minutes after any unavoidable interaction he'll just confabulate a conversation something like "Sir, thank you sir for saving the planet."

[wnylib]

34. I think that his reptilian brain picks up negative vibes from people

but the reason for it does not register.

[pat_k]

35. Wouldn't surprise me.

I would like to think that even if his short-term memory is shot to hell that he picks up on the contempt people have for him on some level.

He clearly has lost nothing of his obsession with Obama. And even when he had all his faculties, he constantly jumbled up the terms of the JPCOA and the terms of the settlement of the decades old dispute with Iran over undelivered military equipment (the original $400 million placed in a trust fund by the pre-1979 Iranian government for military purchases, plus $1.3 billion in interest.)

[Skittles]

25. correct

anything negative said or written about him is always FAKE NEWS

[malaise]

8. Good bet

Rec

[Prairie Gates]

9. The scope of the defeat is stunning even to Trump haters

If Obama had struck a similar deal after losing 14 service members and wasting $100 billion in munitions, he would be impeached by a Republican Congress within a week.

[agingdem]

11. He's in rapid cognitive decline...

He has no filter, no self awareness…his short term memory is pretty much negligible and what remains is his long term memory of hate ..and Trump is definitely not running the show, his advisors are…so they let him run his mouth ..Obama/Biden/rigged election/revenge lawsuits/“please sir”/greatest president/deals/ballroom blah blah while they grift and lie to Congress ..does anyone honestly believe he knows what’s in the Iran bend-over agreement?…he doesn’t read, he’s unable to comprehend, and his minders are assuring him he won…

[Progressive dog]

12. The felon does think his followers are imbeciles

While he is probably right, he won't admit that most of them are smarter than he is.

[maxsolomon]

19. Facebook has been showing me Reels of fresh interviews with die-hard MAGAts.

They're nearly unbearable and there's not a thing to learn from watching them. MAGAts are still far dumber than Dementia Don.

[misanthrope]

13. I think it merely shows his desperation

To get his polling turned around and avoid midterm defeat. He is nearly panicked about oil prices.

[pat_k]

15. Could certainly be the case. But if there were a way to resolve the bet, I'd put money on short-term memory deficit...

...manipulation by others (who understand there is no other way out of his criminal war), and confabulation of "great deal" on his part

[ArnoldLayne]

14. What a nut you have to watch it to believe it.

It's family intervention time.

[gab13by13]

17. Krasnov is doing it to avoid $7/gal gas on the 4th of July,

that's it, Occam's Razor. $7/gal gas would devastate him. He can't do 13,000 more air strikes, that would raise the price of gas.

His only option to calm the markets is to surrender to Iran.

[pat_k]

21. As I replied above, he certainly may know what he's doing...

... but I would bet against it. (And would put money on it if there were a way to resolve. Unfortunately, we may never know what actually transpired.)

Related thoughts in post #10..

[malaise]

18. Well that press conference is all the evidence you needed

Rec

[Hugin]

20. That was pretty obvious in the state visit to China.

They were laughing AT him, hard.

[Wounded Bear]

24. Narcissists generally have very poor self recognition. They don't do "shame"...

Encroaching senility makes it worse.

[pat_k]

28. Perhaps I need a word other than "humiliating" to capture...

... that he is -- under "normal" circumstances-- constitutionally incapable of accepting a loss of any kind.

He may not feel shame, but he has never, and I thought never would, taken an L.

As I noted in post #10, his surrender on this strikes me as very different than his "normal" modus operandi. It's not like a lost election that he can scream "rigged" about. It's not like a secret lawsuit settlement he can declare a "win." It is not something he can deny as "fake news."

This is a gargantuan loss on the world stage that he is publicly walking into. The public terms are/will be the public terms, and there is no way around the fact that we are FAR, FAR worse off than we were when he tore up Obama's JCPOA. His criminal war was a cataclysmic mistake and the only out was always going to be sucking up terms of surrender.

It seems to me that the NPD part of his dual diagnosis ASPD/NPD would have had him endlessly screaming at his "negotiation team" to get a better deal. And when they did not/could not, he would have cast himself as the "strongman" holding out for that better deal. If he were "himself," I would have expected him to avoid surrender at all costs, and to hell with the domestic and international chaos and escalating harms.

[eggplant]

26. My prediction: He signs an Iran agreement shortly before dying.

Then all of this crap can be laid at his feet. Otherwise his successor will inherit the shitshow.

[Johnny2X2X]

27. Nah

He knows, that's why he lashed out at Obama today.

[pat_k]

30. Could be. However, when details are made public, I suspect that...

...his diatribe will prove he has no clue what is in the deal.

I think the current "deal" is almost guaranteed to unfreeze many times the amount of frozen assets Obama released, and will include a stupefying transfer of cash from federal coffers (i.e., our tax dollars).

Time will tell, but it should probably be noted that any comparison of "size" of this deal relative to the JCPOA is lunacy. That deal was done and had it been left in place there would be no need to make another fucking deal. Every penny in this "deal" is payment for the psychopath's insanity, first in shredding the JCPOA and second in starting his criminal war.

[Johnny2X2X]

31. The current deal un-freezes all of their assets

That’s what it says. There are between $100B and $160B total frozen assets. The deal said Iran gets all of those after signing Friday.

[pat_k]

32. Which makes his condemnations of JPCOA laughable.

[pat_k]

33. P.S. I'm assuming you meant "deal unfreezes"

[malaise]

29. Yah think?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=21312060