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hardluck

(684 posts)
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 03:16 PM Sep 26

NY Appeals Court Casts Doubt On $489M Trump Judgment

Source: Law360

Law360 (September 26, 2024, 3:09 PM EDT) -- Judges on a New York appeals court expressed skepticism Thursday of a $489 million civil fraud judgment against Donald Trump, his sons, companies and their executives, raising the prospect that the fine awarded to the attorney general could be reduced or vacated.

During a special session of oral arguments, the five First Department jurists peppered attorneys on both sides with questions, with some casting doubt on Trump's core legal arguments but expressing concern about the sheer size of the fine and asking if New York Attorney General Letitia James had overstepped her broad powers to punish fraud.

Associate Justice Peter H. Moulton said there must be some limit on the state's power to investigate fraud in the marketplace, with similar concerns voiced by Associate Justice John R. Higgitt and Associate Justice David Friedman.

"I think you hear underneath all these questions, the question of mission creep," Justice Moulton said, asking whether the statute wielded by James' office had "morphed into something" that the legislature had not intended.







Read more: https://www.law360.com/appellate/articles/1883141?nl_pk=bff2f00f-5dd5-437e-bb2f-b0f1a7fd88b7&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=appellate&utm_content=1883141&read_main=1&nlsidx=0&nlaidx=0



Just came into my inbox at work....
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NY Appeals Court Casts Doubt On $489M Trump Judgment (Original Post) hardluck Sep 26 OP
Wow Polybius Sep 26 #1
Do y'all smell something? twodogsbarking Sep 26 #2
I smell stinky fish ArkansasDemocrat1 Sep 26 #3
Not surprising! No justice! PortTack Sep 26 #4
".. there must be some limit on the state's power to investigate fraud" Grins Sep 26 #5
He self-professes to be THE RICHEST MAN IN AMERICA forgotmylogin Sep 26 #10
I watched part of the oral argument in this case LetMyPeopleVote Sep 26 #6
Mission creep? Bayard Sep 26 #7
Kind of like what Ken Starr did for the Bill Clinton impeachment? FakeNoose Sep 26 #9
Somehow angrychair Sep 26 #8
Massive civil fraud verdict against Trump gets frosty reception at New York appeals court mahatmakanejeeves Sep 27 #11
Is it a right leaning court? Nt helpisontheway Sep 27 #12
Nope Polybius Sep 27 #15
I don't understand why they would try to save him. Nt helpisontheway Sep 27 #16
"there must be some limit on the state's power to investigate fraud in the marketplace," Novara Sep 27 #13
This is crazy... what the fuck is going on? Happy Hoosier Sep 27 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 27 #17

Grins

(7,883 posts)
5. ".. there must be some limit on the state's power to investigate fraud"
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 04:16 PM
Sep 26

Really? Sez’ who? And why?

And if there isn’t a statute of limitations - are you “legislating from the bench?”

forgotmylogin

(7,674 posts)
10. He self-professes to be THE RICHEST MAN IN AMERICA
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 11:57 PM
Sep 26

And it is clear that minor fines just bounce right off him. It's like fining a regular person $2 for a parking ticket - if they can afford it, they'll keep breaking the law. If a fine doesn't make the recipient think twice about doing it again it's pointless.

LetMyPeopleVote

(154,352 posts)
6. I watched part of the oral argument in this case
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 04:38 PM
Sep 26

Here is a link to the oral argument
https://www.youtube.com/live/emwvMtwZ53k
The Court of Appeals has already strongly hinted at least part of the ruling. In order to bond the full amount of the judgment, TFG would have to put up close to a half billion dollars in a bond. TFG complained and the Court of Appeals reduced the bond to $175 million. This tells me that the Court of Appeals is likely to reduce the judgement.

The judgment in this case was based on two separate damage elements (i) TFG's saving due to lower interest rates due to the fraudulent statements and (ii) disgorgement of all profits realized by TFG due to the fraudulent transactions. Disgorgement is a strange remedy that is sometimes used when no other form or measure of damages is appropriate. Here the $400+ million judgement against TFG included both elements of damages with the disgorgement damages being the largest part of the judgement.

I did not listen to TFG's attorney main argument but listened to most of the NY AG attorney oral argument where the judges asked at least twice if the damage are being double counted. I think that the court may well reduce the judgment to a lower amount consistent with the $175 million bond.

Again, the court has already signaled part of the ruling.

Bayard

(24,145 posts)
7. Mission creep?
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 05:22 PM
Sep 26

Is that code word for trump?

It would be truly outrageous if they messed with this ruling. I would expect better of NY justices.

FakeNoose

(35,632 posts)
9. Kind of like what Ken Starr did for the Bill Clinton impeachment?
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 09:16 PM
Sep 26

That was true "mission creep" ...

But this one, I think Letitia James knew what she was doing all along.

angrychair

(9,725 posts)
8. Somehow
Thu Sep 26, 2024, 06:03 PM
Sep 26

He always manages to weasel out of everything. It's becoming unequivocally clear he will never face accountability. Our society is truly broken.

mahatmakanejeeves

(60,868 posts)
11. Massive civil fraud verdict against Trump gets frosty reception at New York appeals court
Fri Sep 27, 2024, 12:04 AM
Sep 27

Adding a link:

LEGAL
Massive civil fraud verdict against Trump gets frosty reception at New York appeals court

A panel of judges voiced skepticism about the size and validity of the nearly half-billion-dollar judgment.


Republican presidential nominee former President Donald Trump speaks at Trump Tower in New York, Sept. 26. | Seth Wenig/AP

By ERICA ORDEN
09/26/2024 06:42 PM EDT

NEW YORK — Appeals court judges appeared to question the legitimacy of the civil fraud case against Donald Trump as the former president urged the court Thursday to overturn a judgment against him that has ballooned, with interest, to more than $478 million.

{snip}

The nearly half-billion-dollar penalty ordered by the trial judge initially threatened to trigger a financial crisis for Trump. But a New York appeals court sharply reduced the amount of the bond he had to post to avoid immediate enforcement of the verdict. Trump is now asking that same court to toss out the verdict entirely.

During oral arguments on Thursday, some members of the five-judge appeals court panel suggested that New York Attorney General Tish James had overstepped by using the particular New York fraud statute she used to bring the case against Trump. As soon as Deputy Solicitor General Judith Vale, arguing for James, began her opening remarks, she was cut off by Associate Justice David Friedman, who questioned whether her office had ever before used the statute “to upset a private business transaction that was between equally sophisticated partners.”

Associate Justice Llinet Rosado chimed in once Friedman finished to add, “and little to no impact on the public marketplace.” … The justices’ questions echoed one of Trump’s central lines of defense: He has argued that no one was harmed by the inflated valuations.

{snip}

Novara

(6,115 posts)
13. "there must be some limit on the state's power to investigate fraud in the marketplace,"
Fri Sep 27, 2024, 07:32 AM
Sep 27

Uh, no.

Someone who built his fortune bilking the state for DECADES needs to be held accountable and the state needs to have all the tools at its disposal to reclaim its losses.

Happy Hoosier

(8,374 posts)
14. This is crazy... what the fuck is going on?
Fri Sep 27, 2024, 07:49 AM
Sep 27

It just feels like it is absolutely true that there is no accountability for the very rich, and that shitstain of a human being in particular.

Response to hardluck (Original post)

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