"Gender Traitors"

[Bonobo]

I wonder which one REALLY should be called "gender traitors"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4120434

Tuesday Afternoon (48,711 posts)
134. I knew you would. and Truly -- you are most welcome.

You deserve it.

that you can continue to laugh at simple old jokes and enjoy being petted by these men.

sort of like their old pet dog, reminds me.

the picture I have of you in my mind when I see you posting.

a good old hunting dog. loyal. pet. pet. good doggie. here let me throw you another morsel ...

lord. You crack me up.

haha. Hilarious. truly LMAO over her.

http://www.atheistrev.com/2013/04/gender-traitors-sister-punishers-and.html

Gender Traitors, Sister Punishers, and Chill Girls

Let me be clear that I do indeed find it unfortunate that some secular feminists use terms like "gender traitor," "sister punisher," and "chill girl" as gendered slurs against women who do not share their particular ideology. It does seem hypocritical to complain about gendered insults aimed at women while using gendered insults aimed at women. And yes, "gender traitor," "sister punisher," and "chill girl" are gendered insults. They are aimed at women who disagree and not at men. And no, I do not support their use either.

Here is yet another example of a prominent feminist atheist using "sister punisher" in the comments section of a post on Ophelia Benson's blog (Butterflies & Wheels):

sister punisher
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What makes this one noteworthy is not that it occurred on Ophelia Benson's blog but that it came from Melody Hensley. For those of you unfamiliar with Ms. Hensley, she is the Executive Director for the Center for Inquiry - Washington DC. I agree that this behavior, as well as her defense of such labels on Twitter, is disappointing to see from someone in her position.

So yes, there may be some hypocrisy involved when feminists call people out for using gendered slurs against women and then turn around and do it themselves. I will agree on that point. However, this must not be allowed to obfuscate the simple fact that we are adults, and this is not the playground. Just because someone calls you a "rape apologist" or "MRA" does not mean that it is suddenly acceptable to call them a "cunt." Just because someone labels you a "gender traitor" does not mean that you should now feel perfectly justified in calling them a "fucking bitch." And just because someone else decides to abandon even the pretense of rationality for name-calling does not mean we must also do so.

Read more: http://www.atheistrev.com/2013/04/gender-traitors-sister-punishers-and.html#ixzz2mZycjsAh

[loli phabay]

2. i dontt get this at all, its almost like a demand for group think

Its a need to castigate anyone who dares to think differently from the group, as if the individual should give up all their own thoughts and beliefs to some phantom leadership that sets what all within the group should think. It is very borg like. You see it in every group whether its gender, race, ethnicity or any variance of. Funny thing is its militantly supported as long as the other does not do it, then we hear words such as traitor, quisling and any other attack you care to mention.

[ElboRuum]

15. It's really simple.

It isn't LIKE a demand for group think, it IS a demand for group think.

The group in question, and this is just a speculation, are people who may have been harmed in some way by men but have not healed. And the fact is that this healing, for most of them, may NEVER occur. If this is the case, I do feel sympathy for them and whatever it may be that has happened to them. However, acting as a group, it is obvious that there is enough unbridled anger there, being reinforced and amplified amongst each other, that they've long since abandoned the fact that it was an individual or individuals which have caused their pain, not an entire categorical group.

Once you've gone there, my sympathy disappears. The group in question is more about demonizing men as a whole, treating them as inferiors and sub-human, and looking upon anything males favor as abhorrent, retrograde, and anti-progressive. To attempt this kind of a bigotry in a liberal framework touted as a type of feminism, where we would otherwise look at such a bigotry itself as abhorrent, retrograde, and anti-progressive, requires the kind of rhetorical tomfoolery we usually see from them.

It's why hypocrisy is not only acceptable, but unavoidable. Why it is okay to shout at men the worst sort of accusations of troglodyte behaviors, and why even the most careful statements of criticisms in the mere direction of a woman are intolerable and ALWAYS "sexist"? It's to be expected. Men bad, women good, at least among these so-called "feminists". When a woman says, "that man has a point" which opposes their narrative, they are "traitors". It seems to be just an us vs. them situation, and has little to do with advancing the rights of women to points of true equality. It's why they'll jump into bed with the likes of Ed Meese if it gets that nasty objectifying porn out of the hands of those male grotesques. Put aside the fact that Ed's one of the most reactionary of the party of reactionaries, and would probably rewrite the Constitution to declare women as property given half a chance to do so. It's an acceptable alliance because every erection prevented is a battle won, apparently.

Feminism, in its primacy of purpose, is to assure for women the same freedom of choice that men have, in all aspects of society where no other limiting factor would otherwise exist. Going further, if, indeed, those limiting factors are presumed to exist, they should be ruthlessly questioned and subject to the preponderance of the burden of proof if we are to accept them. At its heart, the point of feminism is to tear down the artificial edifices of restriction placed upon women's bodies, ambitions, roles, and minds so that women may enjoy fully the gamut of choices that men have always taken for granted.

Yet, when a woman chooses something that does not mesh with their idea of the "right" choice, all of a sudden the choice and freedom and agency of women that they claim to care so much about become "troublesome" and "regressive". Of course, the hypocrisy in this is obvious, so to coat it with a delicious candy shell, it all of a sudden conveniently becomes coercion in the guise of choice. Well, there you go. The usual malefactors are, of course, blamed (patriarchy, etc).

[In_The_Wind]

3. Indeed!

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2013, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)

IMO: Respect for oneself and others should be shown even in a heated debate.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

4. There's a reason we have multiple women's groups

Some people consider themselves more femminy or wimminy than others, I guess.

[Doctor_J]

5. Wow.

Amazing that post didn't get ppr, let alone hidden.

[HappyMe]

6. The very things that they love to accuse men of,

they are guilty of themselves. Complaining about a "culture of _____" and creating their own culture of dismissive name calling and stfu toward other women serves their holier than thou attitude very well.

I don't believe there is anything to be learned about feminism on DU.

[RiffRandell]

7. Not from certain so called "feminists".

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:26 PM - Edit history (3)

Unless you want to learn about hypocrisy, hatefulness, being judgemental, gossiping/attacking about people over their personal, private issues they may struggle with, accusing other genders (or the same which really takes the cake as they call themselves feminists) of disgusting falsehoods that I think brings them personal joy to make up. Sick.

Most of the above mentioned I "learned" in junior high and HS as those are highly predominant in that age group, and learned quite early on from myself, my mother, teachers and my true friends (boys included) what kind of woman I want to be, and it sure as shit isn't certain ones here.

I'm proud of who I am, my family and the children we raised, beliefs, my knowledge, my personality, sense of humor, my politics, my confidence in my sexuality and the company I keep.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add my looks, too.

[HappyMe]

8. I just don't want or need

anybody telling me what I should or shouldn't think, and being condescended to to top it all off.

I'm happy with the job I have done as a mother, happy with my husband and pretty much everything.

Well, you're in good company then - I'm a looker too.

[RiffRandell]

9. I bet you are!

I forgot to mention I'm also a very good judge of character.

We have a lot in common, and I am really glad we are friends.

[loli phabay]

12. not judging but i always thought you were a guy, no idea why

[HappyMe]

19. Really?

I have mistakenly thought someone was one gender and then found out that they are the other.

No harm, no foul.

[loli phabay]

25. guess your a traitor. lol

[HappyMe]

31. Every day.

[Major Nikon]

11. Some apparently have no use for credibility

When you cite far right wing homophobic shitbags just because they might happen to say something you like, credibility is obviously not something you value very much.

When you can't form an argument that isn't filled with obvious logical fallacies which you either can't see or don't care about, your own credibility is not something you value.

[In_The_Wind]

14. I totally agree.

[Major Nikon]

16. When you are a slave to your emotions, that's a problem

[nomorenomore08]

17. Not quite on-topic, but I'm sorry you were insulted just for disagreeing with someone.

I didn't get to respond to your post to me on the other thread before it got locked, but I agree that that kind of behavior is unacceptable, especially coming from a self-identified feminist.

[RiffRandell]

21. No need for you to apologize.

I took it more as being insulted for being a woman and laughing at the men's jokes...I think. No telling anymore.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. I can't comprehend how this clique has avoided their "Judgement at Nuremberg" moment

I didn't think they would survive a week after Meta shut down. I can't imagine any other group, even if they were just irritating as opposed to offensive would be tolerated.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

20. I think it's what they want, ultimately.

That, for them, would be validation. You see it every time they come in here, hurl a few grenades, and run. But most people here can't be bothered to alert on them as much as they alert on others.

[RiffRandell]

23. You are so right on the alert part.

Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2013, 06:30 PM - Edit history (2)

I'll admit I was the one that alerted on the post. I never had anyone on my jury blacklist, and since the jury system went into effect have probably sent under 15 alerts and they were mostly on trolls.

I have since updated my jury blacklist as I'm fairly certain those who get all wound up over personal attacks and certain words were on the jury that let it stand 4-2. I still have the results in my inbox.

My post wasn't finished but somehow got sent as I was interrupted by that crazy/awesome finish by the Patriots.

Sorry, wasn't trying to rub it in about the Pats as I know you aren't a fan, it's just my post ended mid-sentence.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

28. Yeah, suuuuure

I never even entertained the idea of a jury blacklist until I saw how freaking angry and stalkerish people got about a year ago. Now it's filled up.

[RiffRandell]

22. I really don't get it either, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

They have become quite predictable.

[In_The_Wind]

26. "seem to be Pubic Enemy #1."

scooch over

[Bonobo]

27. No kidding.

I posted a video with a strong Feminist message in the Feminist Group and was greeted with:




http://www.democraticunderground.com/113910612#post3

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

29. The good news is, the Feminist Group doesn't roll like that in general. nt

[Bonobo]

32. Apparently not.

The one who lit into me was NOT supported by a chorus of "Yes-women".

They thanked me for reaching out. Imagine THAT!

[Bonobo]

36. The funny think about this

is that at least seaglass has the opportunity to respond to me in this forum AND I did not call her out in my post.

Unlike the HOF where they actually USE our names and call us out AND we cannot respond since we are blocked.

Seaglass, you could have come here and apologized for being a jerk to me -the jury apparently felt you were so as well, 6-0, but you didn't. All you can do is huff and puff and act offended. That's called victim-blaming.

Respond or not to this, I care not one whit.

[Major Nikon]

34. Anger clouds the mind.

Turned inward it is an unconquerable enemy.

-- Master Splinter

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

30. Probably because, and this is not ball washing....

....you are one of the most intelligent, wittiest, and yet still generally polite posters on DU. Really, nothing you say is hide-worthy, because unfortunately for some people, calling out total bullshit is not a hideable offense to the rankin file DUer.

[RiffRandell]

38. The rest of you aren't so bad yourself.

[opiate69]

41. Well.. Except that opiate guy.. He's just a tool lol

[RiffRandell]

37. Yeah, I just noticed that in the thread from this OP.

I was like damn, this is still alive...then laughing (god forbid) at some more of your responses after the wagons circled (you called it) and your video of the movie The Room.

I never heard of that movie...funny!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. "The precious rape porn"

Wow. Wowwy wow.

I wonder if they'll get a trademark on that.

[opiate69]

40. Damn.. I totally missed the latest donnybrook!

Props, as usual, to Warren, though.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

42. Don't miss the "DU men are solely to blame for the selfie flap" pier six'er

Apparently one troll is enough to tip all scales.

[RiffRandell]

43. Kick, for people that claim to miss the insult.

For those that clicked, the pleasure of a great song:

Love the 4 minute mark!