Men's Group
Related: About this forumIs Egalitarian the way to go?
For a very long time, I considered myself a Feminist. I associated with others who self identified the same way... and we worked toward the idea of gender equality and fairness. Righting wrongs, having intelligent dialog and doing all the things a good Feminist should do. We were fighting the good fight, and so, Life was good.
One day I noticed something in a Feminist blog I'd been frequenting for years, I hadn't seen before. I don't know if it was because I simply wasn't paying attention, I'd been willfully blind, or perhaps it simply hadn't been there before... someone was expressing man-hate. And by man-hate, I don't mean complaining about male-entitlement or the patriarchy... I mean this person wanted to commit acts of violence against men... wanted to cripple them in male-part-snipping emasculating ways.
My initial reaction was that this had to be some extreme anti-Feminism person trying to pull some form of bait and switch... someone trying to give the Feminist movement a bad name. I figured, it was just a troll, and that my fellow Feminists should see right through that ploy and rebuff and then expel this disruptive force that had somehow squirreled its way onto the blog. After all, Feminism was about gender equality... not about bringing down the male gender, but raising women everywhere. Then, the unthinkable happened.
Women and Feminists all over the blog started voicing similar notions, and joked about various things to do with "Liberated parts". Feminists that I respected where talking about flying said parts from flag poles in similar fashion to how bra used to be. I was stunned. I couldn't bring myself to formulate a reply to what, I was sure, were anti-Feminist ideas. I did the only smart thing I could think to do... I shut off the computer and found something else to do, hoping that all this anti-male hostility would be a mere memory tomorrow.
The following day, I'd managed to keep myself busy for a majority of the day... subconsciously putting off checking on my daily blog sites. I had housework that needed tending to, a car that needed washing, and I'm sure there was a bill I needed to pay online...I was stalling. I quickly ran out of tasks with which to distract myself, and found myself staring at my un-powered computer monitor. It must have been a good couple of minutes before I forced myself to take a seat at the desk and begin the process of powering on my computer.
I told myself, yesterday was a fluke. An aberration. Feminism is not about hate or division. The very foundations of feminism are about fairness, equality and inclusion. Some part of my mind was staring at me from a recessed shadow, mocking me with a withering stare. My hands literally started to sweat as my desktop wallpaper came on, and the Internet Explorer icon popped into existence. I glanced around the screen looking for a reason to not click on that icon. Then, I could swear I heard that shadow-lurking part of my mind say in acerbic annoyance: Stop putting it off. Go there and get it over with. So I did.
As soon as I got to the blog, I was assaulted by a whole host of vitriolic thread titles. I tensed.
Maybe it was just a title and nothing more. Yeah right said my mind. I clicked through.
It was like stepping into a war zone. A small handful of Feminists calling for reason were under an absolute hate-filled onslaught by numerous others Id held in high esteem. As I watched, the smaller group was being attacked ideologically, personally, directly and indirectly. The sheer volume of toxic comments pushed all but one remaining reasonable Feminist to stop posting. After perhaps ten minutes, even that one stopped posting. I checked other threads only to find lesser degrees of what Id just witnessed.
It was as if someone had flicked a switch, and many of the people you thought you knew, suddenly took on a Jekyll and Hyde mentality
and Mr. Hyde had just come out to play. Male hatred and loathing was everywhere. This was not what I became a Feminist for. This was antithetical to what Id thought Feminism was. I was lost
adrift. If I wasnt a Feminist, what was I?
Well, it turns out the answer might be very simple.
I did some research online, and stumbled across a word. One Id heard before, but never gave much thought to: Egalitarianism. In short, it is the line of thought that favors equality for all people. That means women, LGBT, those of color, and even men in some cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
So, that leads me to this question: Is Egalitarianism a better option than Feminism alone? I dont necessarily suggest it as a replacement for Feminism, but more as a way to stand against all injustices regardless of type.
I welcome your thoughts.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Principles over personalities. Sometimes you need a meeting but you dislike somebody in the group because they are a know it all. If you need the support badly enough you go and put up with the egomaniac.
I've been blocked by by certain someones for daring to speak of personal responsibility for behavior. Worst advice evah.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I feel the same way when I see someone post something from reddit, tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, etc and say "SEEEEE!!!! All fucking men are misogynist creeps who live to harass women on the internet!".
The most vocal and socially inept people are drawn to the internet as their soapbox and stage to act like assholes. Men, women, left, right, Christian, Muslim, atheist....on and on. At the end of the day, they are assholes. All of them.
My best advice is that if you come upon a site where that shit is tolerated, don't go there.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)Excellent advice. Though the site in question, I'd been going to for quite a few years, and noticed no hint of... well, what I experienced. It was startling to say the least.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)And yes, if your actual goal is equality, then egalitarianism is what you're fighting for.
Feminism is advocacy for women.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Of particular interest is "The Contempt of Women," Aug 8, 2012. His essay doesn't quite ring with what you experienced on the site you mention, as there is a faint pitch of academia from dedicated Feminist sites, while Marche covers the culture in one act.
He also has a thousand-word essay, out earlier this year, which deals with the rise of I-net "Peak Hate" in general. He contends this style won't last as more folks will demand civility and editing, or they'll walk.
Very provocative stuff. One of the few positive reasons for getting old is this old Cracker has an excuse not to engage in this "debate," not that most women give a shit.
The other reason? For young folks, the future of work & living really stinks. Glad I missed that, too.
Response to Veilex (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
steve2470
(37,468 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)To be honest, I actually do consider myself a feminist, and have, since I came across a section of the YouTube community a while back(early 2010, or thereabouts). And to be truthful, most of them I met were actually pretty nice people.....with a lady calling herself "Diana Boston" about the only exception.
Unfortunately, my more recent experiences haven't always been that good, including on here. And I'm sure some people may have noticed how I've been attacked by some of the more extreme feminists on this site, simply because I don't believe in literal collective "privilege", nor do I believe that even the original academic term is really all that effective as a catch-all term to describe inequality. (To be fair, though, I've been thru worse elsewhere.) So yeah, infighting isn't fun to deal with, at all.
P.S. I rarely ever go over here for the most part. But having browsed thru here, and actually done a little research, it seems that maybe this group is really okay. I don't plan on ever rejecting feminism, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to get some perspective from fellow liberals who don't consider themselves as feminists, per se.
P.P.S., I do honestly suspect that there are a fair number of deep-cover trolls who are indeed masquerading as feminists/social justice activists; perhaps that might explain the rash of crazies posting bullshit like "all whites are racist", or even truly wacky stuff like the disruption of a feminist conference by provocateurs with a banner reading "White feminists, we don't need to explain your racism" as relayed by another DUer, though I forget their name or where they posted that, exactly. I'll link to it if I can get around to searching again, and if I find it).
Veilex
(1,555 posts)tend to imply within this group. Maybe there were some problem persons at some point?
Either way, the feminist groups have a habit of painting the Men's Group in a stereotypical negative light.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Veilex
(1,555 posts)I've seen little to disprove that hypothesis to be sure. If you are indeed correct, then I'd venture the Feminism groups are a lot less equality focused than I'd hoped.
I suppose that's why I've been considering the Egalitarian label as of late.
I believe in human rights.. not JUST rights for men or women... or for that matter any other aggrieved group out there.