Americans Support Israel Over Palestinians by more than 4:1

[ericson00]

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:58 AM - Edit history (1)

thought BDS was working? think again.

Americans have become more sympathetic toward Israel over the past 15 years, and that more pro-Israel view held steady in the past year. While Republicans show extraordinarily high support for Israel -- an affinity evident at the Republican presidential debate in Houston last week, where every candidate professed his strong support for the Jewish state -- the majority of Democrats and independents are also on the same page.

Despite what's seen around here and other progressive blogs, the silent majority of Democrats supports Israel!

[tech3149]

1. When the dominant media only present one viewpoint

it is natural that popular opinion will reflect that perception.
I can only say that I am ashamed that more people don't invest in getting a greater understanding of the situation.
I spent most of my adult life staying out of the I/P situation but even a modest effort to learn more made me question Israeli policy and practice.

[oberliner]

4. There is more access to pro-Palestinian news sources today than at any time in history

The Palestinian viewpoint is extremely well represented - especially online.

[leftynyc]

6. Some just refuse to accept

they represent a very small minority of Democrats and Americans. They MUST blame something other than the facts so just in a few posts I see blame for the media and that Americans are stupid when even or own party strongly sympathizes with Israel over the Palestinians. Let them live in denial.

[shira]

40. Our elected Democrats support Israel overwhelmingly too. Coincidence? Not. n/t

[leftynyc]

41. They're representing their

Constituents which is their job. Americans support Israel...even when they have an asshole in charge.

[shira]

42. Fact: The American people ARE the Israel Lobby. n/t

[tech3149]

54. You are correct but you only see it if you look for it

An Israeli perspective is always there on the TV and newspapers.

[oberliner]

56. I think more people use Google than read newspapers

Certainly, it is trending in that direction.

If one googles Israeli-Palestinian conflict, one will find a plethora of perspectives. Twitter, likewise.

In fact, among young people I think the Palestinian perspective is more prevalent - especially on college campuses.

[Scootaloo]

102. Which cable news station leans pro-Palestinian?

[COLGATE4]

104. Al Jazeera

[Scootaloo]

105. You're aware that Al-Jazeera America shuttered three days ago, right?

And that it focused very heavily on American domestic news, relying more on following AP and Reuters stories than generating independent content, right?

That plan is no more. Now Al Jazeera America is aiming to have virtually all of its programming originate from the United States, according to staff members and others associated with the channel who were interviewed in recent weeks.

It will look inward, covering domestic affairs more often than foreign affairs. It will, in other words, operate much like CNN (though the employees say they won’t be as sensational) and Fox News (though they say they won’t be opinion-driven).

The programming strategy, more ambitious than previously understood, is partly a bid to gain acceptance and give Americans a reason to tune in. It may help explain why Al Jazeera America’s start date has been delayed once already, to August from July, and why some employees predict it will be delayed again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/business/media/american-al-jazeera-channel-shifs-focus-to-us-news.html

AJA was never a major cable news outlet. I don't think it even tried to be.

[COLGATE4]

106. I know and it's too bad. But I watched quite a bit of

pro-Palestinian coverage while they were on.

[oberliner]

107. No idea

I get my news from online sources and there are a plethora that are decidedly pro-Palestinian in their coverage.

The easy access to so much detailed reporting online from the Palestinian perspective, as well as the myriad of personal blogs and websites that regularly publish pro-Palestinian editorials, has created an environment where there is more access to pro-Palestinian news sources today than at any time in history.

Would you disagree with that?

[Scootaloo]

108. As a technical point, no

However, the majority of Americans gather their news from the "big three" Cable news outlets (Fox, CNN, MSNBC), whether through the television or online. The bulk of the remaining sources are a very small handful of national news publications. So that there are more outlets online than there have been in years past is true, but also meaningless to the point - the majority of Americans form their opinions from this very small selection of news sources. None of these sources are pro-Palestinian by any measure.

Also, a bit disingenuous of you to try to cite pro-Palestinian online sources, when you put so much effort and rhetoric into discrediting the same at every turn.

[oberliner]

109. I agree

The majority of Americans do use those sources. I am just saying that there is more access today to alternate sources that ever before.

There are definitely pro-Palestinian sources that are not entirely credible. I do try to call them on their BS when I see it. The MSM is not entirely credible either and lots of folks here call Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc out for their BS too. That back and forth is also what is so great about the current internet age. Nothing goes unchallenged. Everyone must be able to stand up to serious scrutiny, because everyone will be scrutinized.

[yourpaljoey]

2. Americans have been dummied down

[MariaThinks]

3. i support Israel 100%

Iran wants to wipe them off the face of the earth.

[grossproffit]

75. Me too!

[leftynyc]

5. Not a surprise

It seems the only place I see Americans trashing Israel is on sites like this one. Here's the Tablet's take on the poll in the context of the Iran deal:

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/198039/gallup-poll-democratic-support-for-israel-rose-four-percent-last-year?utm_source=tabletmagazinelist&utm_campaign=53ab827cdb-Tuesday_March_1_20163_1_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c308bf8edb-53ab827cdb-206638286

[grossproffit]

77. Yep.

America strongly stands with Israel.

I'm a proud Zionist.

[PCIntern]

97. +1 nt

[King_David]

82. +1

[katsy]

101. +1

[azurnoir]

7. and as usual what pushes that % so high is older church going republicans

[leftynyc]

8. It's time for you to face reality

As far as Americans go, the strong support for Israel remains a STRONG majority (4-1). So don't kid yourself - even atheists sympathize more with Israel. Even the 18-29 year olds. Not one broken out group sympathizes more with the Palestinians. Adn the numbers haven't gone down - they've gone UP. It's time for you to accept it and start asking yourself why this is.

[azurnoir]

9. Lol the figures are right there for everyone to see

[leftynyc]

10. LOL - Yes they are

And once again, the percentage of those who sympathize with the Palestinians is pathetically small. You and others keep claiming it's changing and every year gallup proves you wrong. One day you'll face reality and on that day you'll start looking at why it is the way it is. Obviously that day is not today and that's not mine or Israel's problem in the slightest.

[azurnoir]

11. yepper 53% of Democrats vs 79% of Republicans

[leftynyc]

12. And they all get to vote

And their representatives are OBVIOUSLY doing their job representing their constituents. Even among Democrats - the majority sympathizes with Israel and the percentage that sympathizes with the Palestinians is a dismal 23%. Even atheists sympathize more. There isn't one group of Americans where more than 1/3 agree with you and not one group where the majority agrees with you. But keep your head in the sand, it's doing wonders for Palestinian lives.

[azurnoir]

13. I'd take a look at the numbers that have no opinion

and my heads not in the sand nor do I depend on Republican support either to inflate numbers

[leftynyc]

20. You live in a dream world

where republicans and independents don't count among Americans. Why on earth should even Democrats put their asses on the line for a group of people who can't garner more than 20% support in any poll (and 20% would be high)? The answer is there is no reason and it will never happen. And the Palestinians will continue to suffer while you pretend otherwise. Nice work.

[azurnoir]

21. No I do not I live in reality I am a Democrat who does not prize the Republican support of anything

[leftynyc]

23. Well, then good luck getting

anything done for the Palestinians Go ahead and pretend the support for the Palestinians in the US isn't a pathetically small number. They're sure to get a state and better living conditions while you continue to keep your head in the sand and pretend that the DEMOCRATS support them (the numbers are right there - more than twice the support for Israel AMONG DEMOCRATS). Want to ignore the Democrats also?

[King_David]

18. Yes ,

Are you having problems deciphering them ?

[azurnoir]

19. Nondeed they point to the reason for such overwhelming American support for Israel'/Netanyahu

being credited in no small part to older church going Republicans

[King_David]

28. More than double is the amount of Democrats supporting Israel .....

[King_David]

14. And majority of Democrats too....

More than double

[azurnoir]

15. yep a whooping 53%

[King_David]

16. Much more than double the number of Democrats supporting the Palestinians over the Israelis....

[azurnoir]

17. ya that no opinion is very good for Israel's occupation supporters too

[King_David]

24. Democrats support Israel over Palestinians by a margin of more than double

that of Democrats supporting Palestinians over Israel......

MORE THAN DOUBLE !!!!

[leftynyc]

22. Shhhh - he doesn't like

when people point that out. He likes to pretend the support is MASSIVE and it's only republicans and independents that skew the results. The more than double support for Israel among Democrats hasn't penetrated yet. But it's early.

[King_David]

25. The Democratic Party must be a major disappointment

for some in this group ....

Myself I am a proud supporter of the Democratic Party.....

More than double. .... LOL

[leftynyc]

30. But continues to complain

how it's the republicans skewing the numbers. Can't even crack 25% support among DEMOCRATS. And instead of facing reality and asking why this is the way it is, just complains about republicans like that matters. Madness.

[King_David]

35. If I were a single issue antiZionist or antiIsrael or pro BDS

I would find a party that supported my position, because it's pretty obvious the Democratic Party will never ever take up those positions.

[King_David]

93. Yep

[ericson00]

26. don't tell him that if there were a presidential election between

Israel and the Palestinians, or a primary election in either party among them, Israel would win every state in either type of contest. Reagan only beat Mondale by 18 points and won 49/50 states. If Reagan had won 58-28, he might have gotten Minnesota too.

[leftynyc]

32. They can't even crack 1/4 support

among Democrats but like to pretend the problem is republicans. Head in the sand doesn't even cover that level of denial.

[azurnoir]

27. I don't care actually but do dream on...........

I find what seems to be the apparent dependence on Republican opinion amusing

[leftynyc]

29. I was just told you're

a woman. I hope you know I wasn't looking to be insulting and I have no idea why I thought you were a man.

You don't seem to get it. FORGET THE REPUBLICANS - even among Democrats sympathies for the Palestinians don't crack 1/4 - what do you have to say about that?

[azurnoir]

31. without Republicans it goes like this

roughly 50% for Israel
25% for Palestinians
25% don't care either way

[leftynyc]

33. Uh - no

Without republicans it averages to 54.5% for Israel and 19% for the Palestinians - nothing rough about it. I can actually do math.

[azurnoir]

34. ah so now you mix in mostly who are mostly Libertarian me I was going purely Dems

but whatever you need to do, I guess 50/25/25 isn't good enough huh?

[King_David]

36. Maybe you're having difficulty reading this poll

But it's exactly 54% for Israel among Demorats .

23% for Palestinians,among Democrats- less than half the number FOR Israel among Democrats.

No math necessary

( yours is faulty anyway)

Just read the poll

[azurnoir]

38. no problem what so ever and I'm not the one arguing a few % points either

I said in my break down roughly and I'll add within margin of error too

[King_David]

39. Ha ha ha ha

By more than double, more than double the number of Democrats supporting Israel over Palestinians than Democrats supporting Palestinians over Israel....



More than double....

[King_David]

81. Kick

LOL

[azurnoir]

84. this thread breaks I/P rules title of thread doesn't match title of link

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point that out

[King_David]

85. What the poll shows is that among Democrats

More than double the number of them support Israel in the IP conflict than do those Democrats who support the Palestinians in this conflict.

[azurnoir]

86. Breaking Bernie again?-perhaps you should take a gander at this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1457796

it's a really great thread heck I even recced it

[King_David]

87. So what ? Florida Jews too....

They both Democratic Party candidates ..and similar proportions as in Florida... A great Jewish state just like Israel.
That's great news
Thanks for sharing and thanks for kicking

[King_David]

88. Kick

For both those threads.

The ones that show the proportions of Israeli Jews supporting Hillary and Bernie are the same percentages as their sister Jews in Florida .

[King_David]

92. Same proportions of Jews in Israel as in USA

And 80% of Jews vote for the Democratic Party.

[King_David]

89. Kick

[King_David]

90. Kick

[leftynyc]

37. LOL - the numbers for DEMOCRATS

are right there 53% vs 23%. Why can't you just put what's right there? I see you just want to ignore all republicans AND independents. That's what your problem is. You want ignore everyone who doesn't agree with you - even the MORE THAN majority of Democrats and content yourself with 23% of the 1/3 of Americans that are Democrats. That's sure to help the Palestinians.

[azurnoir]

44. lol you seem upset or something fine latch on to each and every % point

this why the US means less and less in the I/P arena

[leftynyc]

45. Of course we don't matter to YOU

Because once again the numbers prove you're in a teeny minority which is what I tell you all the time and you REFUSE to believe because OMG, how could everyone not sympathize with people who vote in terrorist hamas, how could they not support people who support suicide bombers being children, how could they not support the daily violence? Gee, what a surprise!!! Upset? At that poll? LOL - Me thinks you protest too much while you try and pretend those numbers aren't EXACTLY what I posted.

[shira]

49. Well, Mondoweiss claims their movement is getting bigger and BIGGER every day....

How could anti-Zionists believe otherwise?

[leftynyc]

62. LOL

Now there's a piece of crap website if I ever saw one. Considered nothing but a joke by anyone with a brain.

[azurnoir]

61. who is we ?

[leftynyc]

63. WE would be the

majority of Democrats AND Americans that support Israel. You try and completely discount us every single day.

[azurnoir]

64. Lol nope not every single day only bi-monthly or so

[Little Tich]

43. I wonder what percentage of Americans support the settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank?

[leftynyc]

46. Probably pretty small

I don't support them either. Doesn't make my support for Israel waiver for even a second. I don't like everything this country does either. You see, that's the problem with those in the teeny minority that sympathizes with the Palestinians. You ignore the voting for terrorists, the daily violence, the suicide bombings - it appears the majority of Americans aren't willing to turn away from those things.

[Little Tich]

47. I really hope that the percentage who support the settlements is small,

but it's worrying that 34% oppose a Palestinian state. It doesn't have to be that it means that all of the 34% support the settlements, but those who do are to be found among those 34%.

When it comes to the Israeli and Palestinian governments, I sympathize with neither, but when it comes to the peoples, I sympathize with both. However, I'm strongly opposed to racism, especially when it's sponsored by a democratic state. I was against Apartheid in South Africa, and would've been against the segregation in the American South.

I'm much more anti-racism than I'm pro-Palestinian.

[leftynyc]

48. With all due respect

That doesn't come through in your posts at all. The teaching in schools that Jews are monkeys and dogs? What's more racist than that? The continual support in the West Bank and Gaza for violence against Jews? That's racism as I define it. Bibi will eventually be gone - the poison being poured into the minds of children will not.

[Little Tich]

65. I'm well aware that I don't sound too pro-Israel, but I blame the adversarial format of the I/P

forum.

Most OPs are about political issues, and as I completely disagree with almost everything the current Israeli government does, my posts are critical of Israel, and I'm automatically in opposition to those who support what Israel's doing. However, I'm not supporting the nasty s**t that the PA and especially Hamas is doing either. There are just no defenders to argue with.

If I posted something that was about Israel, but wasn't part of the I/P conflict, like an article about Israeli food, that post would sink like a stone. I think we're stuck with the adversarial format whether we want it or not.

[leftynyc]

67. Fair enough (n/t)

[shira]

68. "...not supporting the nasty s**t that the PA and especially Hamas is doing either."

I'm curious, what's the PA doing that you don't support?

[Little Tich]

69. The PA is deeply corrupt and mistreats its citizens:

€2 billion just "disappeared" from aid money given to the PA between 2008 and 2012, arbitrary arrests, torture, unfair trials, clampdowns on freedom of expression, discrimination against women (including honor killings) etc. While I believe that the PA is slowly disintegrating, it's possible that restructuring, added funds and most importantly, alleviating the occupation could turn things around and improve things.

Annual Report: Palestine (State of) 2015/2016
Source: Amnesty International

The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Hamas de facto administration in the Gaza Strip both restricted freedom of expression, including by arresting and detaining critics and political opponents. They also restricted the right to peaceful assembly and used excessive force to disperse some protests. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained common in both Gaza and the West Bank. Unfair trials of civilians before military courts continued in Gaza; detainees were held without charge or trial in the West Bank. Women and girls faced discrimination and violence; some were victims of so-called “honour” killings by male relatives. Courts in both Gaza and the West Bank imposed death sentences; no executions were reported. Neither the Palestinian authorities in the West Bank nor the Hamas authorities in Gaza took steps to investigate and ensure accountability for war crimes and other serious abuses, including summary killings, committed during the 2014 conflict with
Israel and previous conflicts.

Read more: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

Corruption in the Palestinian Authority
Source: Middle East Monitor, December 2013
(snip p1)

A report prepared by the European Union stated that financial corruption in the PA led to the “loss” of aid amounting to around €2 billion, which was transferred to the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the period 2008 to 2012. London’s Sunday Times reported that there is great imbalance in the spending and management of European money in the Palestinian territories.

Read more: Source: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/5/downloads/reports/20131214_CorruptioninthePalestinianAuthority.pdf

Just because I don't use the same sources as you for my information, doesn't mean that I'm uninformed.

[shira]

50. BDS supports Hamas/Fatah dehumanization of Jews, murdering of Jews...

Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:48 AM - Edit history (1)

In the form of resistance, freedom fighting - denying Jews their rights.

Doesn't get anymore racist (Neo-Nazi) than that.

What's to argue?

How can you possibly argue that a neo-Nazi style movement is anti-racist?

[azurnoir]

66. so let me get this straight you claim those that support Palestinians support every little thing the

Palestinians dio, yet those that support do not support everything Israel does, right ? Seems rather ummm odd to me

[rjsquirrel]

51. Americans support Donald Trump too

who cares?

[King_David]

53. Really? Do do 54% of Democrats support Trump and 23% do not?

I don't think so.....

[rjsquirrel]

55. Americans

across all parties "support" and "believe" in ridiculous things like "God" and aliens.

Most Americans don't pay any attention to what happens in Israel. They just blindly believe whatever their ideological leaders do. This is true left and right by the way. Most Israelis I know find their American "supporters" just as bafflingly stupid and poorly informed as their detractors.

I don't support BDS. And I do support Israel. I also support a Palestinian state. And I realize that slogans and hardcore positions are the enemy of peace. One can be very critical of Israeli policy while still supporting them and without reducing Israelis to a monolithic viewpoint. And one can be very critical of Palestinian (various factions) political tactics without racist indictments of all Palestinians as bad people.

Anyone who knows actual people involved in the ground finds the public debate in the US on all sides to be a joke.

[King_David]

59. Can't see much in your post that I would disagree with. nt

[shira]

52. So much for the bullshit claim that young adults 18-29 support Palestinians...

They favor Israelis over Palestinians by more than 2:1.

54% to 23%.

And that, despite BDS stinking up college campuses with their hate for the last decade.

[leftynyc]

57. I wouldn't be surprised if it was BECAUSE

of the campus nonsense that that age group feels the way it does. When you see people ignoring the violence of the Palestinian "leaders", they shouldn't be surprised that people are horrified at the one sided bullshit the campus know nothings engage in.

[6chars]

58. good point.

[King_David]

60. Agreed

[Mufaddal]

71. Antebellum southerners probably supported slavery by the same margins or greater

But that's a nice bandwagon you've got there.

[ericson00]

72. right; the America that elected a racial minority member POTUS twice

is now akin to the slavery-supporting version from 160 years ago.

[Mufaddal]

74. Based on your response

I'm unclear on whether you need to look up "antebellum" or "bandwagon fallacy."

[Hazelrah]

73. Jury Results

FYI

****
On Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:43 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Antebellum southerners probably supported slavery by the same margins or greater
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125637

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Zionism is not slavery; even the apartheid comparisons don't invoke slavery

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:10 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think the poster was saying it is equal to slavery.

I think s/he was saying people who benefit in some way from a system no matter how unjust might not see it clearly.

That's my best guess. I could be wrong. Why don't you try asking the poster for clarification instead of you know alerting on a DISCUSSION(!) board?

Seriously, everyone needs to stop alerting when they just don't like the content.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seems like a valid comparison to me. What Israel does to Palestinians may not be slavery but that wasn't the point the poster was trying to make. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't read this as *equating* Zionism with slavery. I think the poster is saying that both situations fall under the category of human rights violations and both are on the wrong side of history.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Depaysement]

76. How nuanced

I'm so impressed. Not.

Then there's this. "By a slight margin, 44% to 37%, more Americans favor than oppose the establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza Strip."

Given the overwhelming support for Israel in the MSM, evangelical and conservative "hosannas" and the amount of cash contributed by American Jews to politicians of all types, it is no wonder that so many Americans "support" Israel.

[King_David]

78. Kick

[ericson00]

79. double kick

big thanks tho!

[King_David]

80. Hillary to adress APAIC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134125819#post4

[leftynyc]

83. That'll be interesting

I have a friend from my office attending - I'll get a first hand report.

[King_David]

91. Report back to us

[King_David]

94. And growing...

[ericson00]

95. and it will be more after more people see

this disgusting act in the name of "Palestine."

[King_David]

96. Sick

[ericson00]

98. Bump to remind Bernie

of this truth!

[Tony_FLADEM]

99. I'll try to explain why these numbers are so skewed to one side

If you look at the group that attends worship services weekly they support Israel by 75%.

The group that never or seldom attends church supports Israel by only 56% (19% lower).

Now both of these groups have access to the same information as it relates to this issue.

Why is there a 19% difference and why do 44% of people who Never/Seldom attend church either support the Palestinians or couldn't care either way?

This is because support for Israel involves taking religious factors into consideration. I'm not critiquing that or making a judgment.

It's just that it's misleading and somewhat disingenuous to have a secular type of debate on this conflict using popularity gauges because of this reality

[ericson00]

100. even without the church goes, Israel still wins by RATIOS

of more than 2:1. Reagan only needed 3:2 to win 49 states in 1984. Israel would still win 50 states if a POTUS nominee and its party would get 400 House seats plus.

[leftynyc]

103. Perhaps a better question

to ask yourself is why support for Israel remains so high even among atheists, the young (more of whom leave religion behind every day), both political parties. Religion has nothing to do with it. You can't really leave religion out of this discussion seeing as both sides claim the Almighty gave them the land.

[King_David]

110. Kick

[ericson00]

111. thanks

this one will be like a soccer ball at an AF game; it keeps getting kicked because it's awesome