Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe Great BDS Debate (Uri Avnery)
The Great BDS Debate
...Buying or not buying, whatever the motive, is a private affair. Therefore, it is very difficult to know how many Israelis followed our call. Our impression is that quite a considerable number of Israelis did and do. We did not ask people to boycott Israel as such. We considered this counter-productive. Faced with a threat against the state, Israelis unite. This would mean pushing decent, well-meaning citizens into the arms of the settlers. Our aim was the very opposite: to separate the general public from the settlers.
THE BDS movement has quite a different point of view. It was initiated by Palestinian nationalists, directed at a world audience and totally indifferent to Israeli sentiments. A boycott movement does not need a precise program. The general aim of ending the occupation and enabling the Palestinians to found their own state in the occupied territories would have been enough. But BDS published right from its beginning a clear political program. And there the problem starts. The proclaimed aims of BDS are three: ending the occupation and the settlements, assuring equality for Arabs inside Israel, furthering the return of the refugees. This sound innocuous, but is not. It does not mention peace with Israel. It does not mention the two-state solution. But the main point is the third. The exodus of half the Palestinian people from their homes in the 1948 war – partly fleeing the fighting in a long and cruel war, partly deliberately evicted by the Israeli forces – is a complicated story. I was an eye-witness and have extensively written about it in my books. (The second part of my memoirs has just appeared in Hebrew.) The salient fact is that they were not allowed to return after the end of the war, and that their homes and lands were given to Jewish immigrants, many of whom were refugees from the Holocaust. Reversing that process now is as realistic as demanding that white Americans go back to where their ancestors came from, and returning the land to its original native owners. It would mean the abolition of the State of Israel and the creation of a State of Palestine from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River, a state with an Arab majority and a Jewish minority. How can this be achieved without a war with a nuclear-armed Israel? How does this relate to peace?
....However, and this must be said, there are some BDS adherents who utter statements with an unmistakable anti-Semitic smell. For an honest-to-goodness anti-Semite of the old school, BDS is nowadays a safe pulpit from which they can preach their odious gospel, under the guise of anti-Zionism and anti-Israelism. I would like (again) to warn the Palestinians and their true friends that the anti-Semites are in practice their dangerous enemies. It is they who are pushing Jews from all over the world to settle in Israel. These anti-Semites don't give a damn for the Palestinians, they exploit their plight in order to indulge in their own age-old anti-Jewish perversion.
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http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1457710016/
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King_David
(14,851 posts)They are an antiZionist, Antisemitic and often homophobic movement joined on the extreme left by the extreme right to boycott Jewish Diaspora as well as Jewish Israeli.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)A few days ago an extreme-right Israeli TV commentator announced, only half in jest: "The danger of peace has passed!"
THE SIMPLEST way to exorcise and outlaw the BDS people is to accuse them of anti-Semitism. This puts an end to any sensible discussion, especially in Germany and generally abroad. People who deny the Holocaust are no partners for debate.
There is no evidence whatsoever for the accusation that the majority of BDS sympathizers are indeed anti-Semites. I am convinced that the vast majority of them are devoted idealists, whose heart goes out to the downtrodden Palestinians, as Jews throughout the ages have rushed to the aid of oppressed people, whether American blacks or Russian mujiks.
However, and this must be said, there are some BDS adherents who utter statements with an unmistakable anti-Semitic smell. For an honest-to-goodness anti-Semite of the old school, BDS is nowadays a safe pulpit from which they can preach their odious gospel, under the guise of anti-Zionism and anti-Israelism.
I would like (again) to warn the Palestinians and their true friends that the anti-Semites are in practice their dangerous enemies. It is they who are pushing Jews from all over the world to settle in Israel. These anti-Semites don't give a damn for the Palestinians, they exploit their plight in order to indulge in their own age-old anti-Jewish perversion.
And conversely: Jews who happily join in the new wave of Islamophobia, under the false impression that they are thereby helping Israel, commit a similar grievous mistake. Today's Islam-haters are yesterday's and tomorrow's Jew-haters.
PALESTINIANS NEED peace in order to get rid of the occupation and attain, at long last, freedom, independence and a normal life.
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1457710016/
shira
(30,109 posts)When 99% of those supporting BDS come to realize what a hateful, bigoted anti-Jew, anti-Palestinian farce the BDS movement really is - and continue to support BDS - they forfeit being recognized as devoted idealists whose hearts go out to downtrodden Palestinians.
Also, the Jews joining a new wave of Islamophobia, etc.... are in the extreme minority.
Avnery has it totally backwards. He understates how vile the BDS movement is while exaggerating Jewish extremism.
Israeli
(4,293 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)But he called out the fascist BDS movement for what it is.
If you're interested in ONLY boycotting settlements, join Avnery's movement.
Go on, try arguing Avnery is a propagandist for settlements because he opposes BDS.
Pretty please?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Or perhaps he didn't because they're all only sneaky ways to protect the settlements?
shira
(30,109 posts)......for the warmongering fascist, racist hate movement that it is.
J-Street also opposes BDS and there's no question they oppose the settlements.
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You keep pretending that you're only against settlements and that you only wish to boycott those settlements. I give you Uri Avnery's Gush Shalom since that's exactly what you claim you support.
So why do you keep promoting BDS which goes much further than just settlements?
shira
(30,109 posts)...In March 1997 we held a press conference to announce the campaign. It was a unique event. I have held press conference which were overflowing with journalists – for example, after my first meeting with Yasser Arafat in besieged West Beirut. I have held press conferences with sparse attendance. But this one was really special: not a single Israeli journalist turned up.
Still, the idea spread. I don't know how many thousand Israelis are boycotting the products of the settlements right now.
However, we were upset by the attitude of the European Union authorities, which denounced the settlements while in practice subsidizing their products with customs exemptions like real Israeli wares. My colleagues and I went to Brussels to protest, but were told by polite bureaucrats that Germany and others were obstructing any step toward a settlement boycott.
Eventually, the Europeans moved, albeit slowly. They are now demanding that the products of the settlements be clearly marked.
I always considered this a major strategic error. Instead of isolating the settlements and separating them from mainstream Israelis, a general boycott drives all Israelis into the arms of the settlers. It re-awakens age-old Jewish fears. Facing a common danger, Jews unite.
Netanyahu could not wish for more. He is now riding the wave of Jewish reactions. Every day there are headlines about another success of the boycott movement, and each success is a bonus for Netanyahu.
It is also a bonus for his adversary, Omar al-Barghouti, the Palestinian organizer of BDS.
Palestine is well stocked with Barghoutis. It is an extended family prominent in several villages north of Jerusalem. The most famous is Marwan al-Barghouti, who has been condemned to several life sentences for leading the Fatah youth organization. He was not indicted for taking part in any "terrorist" acts, but for his role as organizationally responsible. Indeed, he and I were partners in organizing several non-violent protests against the occupation.
When he was brought to trial, we protested in the court building. One of my colleagues lost a toenail in the ensuing battle with the violent court guards. Marwan is still in prison and many Palestinians consider him a prospective heir of Mahmoud Abbas.
Another Barghouti is Mustafa, the very likable leader of a leftist party, who ran against Abbas for the presidency of the Palestinian Authority. We have met while facing the army in several demonstrations against the Wall.
Omar Barghouti, the leader of the BDS movement, is a postgraduate student at Tel Aviv University. He demands the free return of all Palestinian refugees, equality for Israel's Palestinian citizens and, of course, an end to the occupation.
However, BDS is not a highly organized worldwide organization. It is more of a trade mark. Groups of students, artists and others spring up spontaneously and join the struggle for Palestinian liberation. Here and there, some real anti-Semites try to join. But for Netanyahu, they are all, all anti-Semites.
AS WE feared from the beginning, the boycott of Israel – as distinguished from the boycott of the settlements – has united the general Jewish population with the settlers, under the leadership of Netanyahu.
The fatherland is in danger. National unity is the order of the day. "Opposition Leader" Yitzhak Herzog is rushing forward to support Netanyahu, as are almost all other parties....
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1434212018
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)There's a big difference between the BDS Movement that wants to include all things Israel, and those who only include the settlements and the occupation in their BDS.
Are we on the same side now?
shira
(30,109 posts)In the posts above, you attacked Uri Avnery as though his call for boycotting settlements was weak.
Now you're on board all of a sudden!
You won't find Uri Avnery, Peter Beinart, Bernard Avishai, or Michael Walzer claiming there is a BDS that only targets settlements/occupation. They boycott settlements only but they oppose BDS. The one and only type of BDS.
You are the only person claiming there are 2 different types of BDS.
Why don't you prove that? Cite some articles that distinguish between 2 types of BDS.
Please.
shira
(30,109 posts)The BDS you support, the only type of BDS there is, not only calls for a Palestinian Right-of-Return but also accuses Israel of being an Apartheid state (not just within the OPT either). It's against 2-states. Let's call it antizionist BDS.
You'll find that those who oppose antizionist BDS & boycott only settlements (like Avnery, Beinart, etc..) do not advocate for a Right-of-Return and neither do they accuse Israel of Apartheid. They're all explicit in their support of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Let's call that Zionist boycotting.
Those are the only types of boycotts there are. Zionist vs. Anti-Zionist. One is a boycott of settlements only, the other is BDS. Everything that's out there on the internet & everything I've posted here proves that. There is no such thing as 2 types of BDS.
Try proving otherwise.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)low opinion of the BDS Movement and what they stand for...
shira
(30,109 posts)In fact, despite what you've claimed before there is nothing about BDS you have a problem with.
When shown that BDS targets Israel, not just settlements, you've demonstrated you really have no problem with that.