What REALLY Happened in Gaza is SHOCKING & No One's Allowed to Talk About it

[Uncle Joe]

[JohnSJ]

1. Everyone who refused to vote for VP Harris owns this, and chants of "Democrats didn't motivate me enough, or there is no

difference between the two parties," etc. etc. etc. doesn't cut it.

The differences between the two were very clear, and trump was very clear what he was going to do, so no one should be surprised by this.

[Mosby]

2. This is antisemitic trash

Did the people who are recommending this garbage actually watch any of this swill? He calls Israelis "racist white supremacists" and claims that "the MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS don't consider Paleatinians as humans."

Fwiw I alerted on this Jew hating trash at YouTube.

DU?

Years ago a DUer posted basically a troll post about the Holocaust (the real one) and everyone who liked the post got tombstoned. True story, but that was David Allen, he didn't play games.

[Uncle Joe]

3. From the son of a holocaust survivor? n/t

[Mosby]

12. What's his name? Do you even know?

[Uncle Joe]

16. No, This is the first time, that I've seen him, but I looked up the history of Double Downs News on Wikipedia

Double Down News (DDN) is a British alternative media outlet founded in 2017 by Yannis Mendez.[1] Funded through Patreon, it produces films and interviews from a left-wing perspective.[2] Double Down News' contributors have included Peter Oborne, George Monbiot,[3] Guz Khan,[4] Nabil Abdul Rashid[5] and David Graeber.[6] The outlet has produced content sympathetic to Jeremy Corbyn[7] and critical of the Conservative Party.[8]

(snip)

History

In August 2017, DDN published a video related to "Traingate", when Jeremy Corbyn had been accused of lying about a Virgin train being full and him being forced to sit on the floor. Jasper Jackson of the New Statesman reviewed that though its video "tells a convincing and detailed account of the whole affair", and reflects poorly on mainstream media reporting, the video was misleading. It presented widely broadcast footage as "never-before seen" and does not disclose that the videomaker capturing footage for Corbyn was a director of DDN.[7]

In October 2018, due to a "violation of community standards", Facebook removed a DDN video featuring Monbiot talking about the alleged atrocities of Christopher Columbus.[16] It was restored the following day, accompanied by an apology.[3]

In October 2022, it published a video by Oborne talking about the Conservative Party having been taken over by the super rich who pushed for tax cutting policies which was in the mini budget and then a U-turn was made by Liz Truss's government.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Down_News#External_links

[Beastly Boy]

20. Speaking of Double Down News,

Overall, we rate Double Down News (DDN) as Left biased based on advocacy and editorial positions that favor a progressive perspective. We also rate them as Mixed for factual reporting due to lack of transparency with ownership, the occasional reliance on poor sources, and one-sided reporting that may omit important information.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/double-down-news-ddn-bias/

[Mosby]

21. His name is Andrew Feinstein.

He's married to a Bangladeshi Muslim women and have two children, both Muslim.

I suspect that his mum and dad weren't very engaged with their Judaism so it's not surprising that he assimilated, at least until he met his wife, then he embraced Islam.

[Uncle Joe]

23. Thanks, I looked him up on Wikipedia and it seems he would know all about the injustice of apartheid

Andrew Josef Feinstein[a] (born 16 March 1964) is a South African former politician, activist, filmmaker, campaigner and author, now based in London, who specialises in the investigation of the arms trade and the corruption that accompanies it. He is Executive Director of a small non-profit, Shadow World Investigations,[3] and serves on the board of Declassified UK. The son of a Holocaust survivor, Feinstein was the first MP to introduce a motion on the Holocaust in the South African parliament.

[v]Feinstein was elected in South Africa's first democratic elections following the abolition of Apartheid, serving as a member of parliament from 1994 to 2001 as a member of the ruling ANC party. In 2001, in protest against the ANC's refusal to investigate allegations of huge bribes and large-scale corruption against senior ANC politicians arising from a £5 billion arms deal, he resigned his parliamentary seat and moved to London, where he works as an investigative author and campaigner. On first arriving in London he worked in investment banking for more than five years.[6]

A former member of the UK Labour Party, Feinstein is highly critical of Keir Starmer, and the direction Labour has taken under Starmer's leadership. Feinstein has lived in Starmer's constituency of Holborn and St. Pancras since 2001, has criticised Starmer for being "terrible on Gaza", and stood against Starmer in the 2024 general election, winning second place with 7,312 votes (18.9%). He commented that "Keir Starmer is the first British Prime Minister in electoral history to enter 10 Downing Street having seen his majority reduced".[7]

(snip)

He was elected an ANC member of parliament under Nelson Mandela in the first democratic election in 1994.[11] He served as a member of the Gauteng Provincial Legislature and an advisor to Gauteng's then-MEC of Finance, Jabu Moleketi, from 1994 to 1996. He also worked as an economic advisor to then-premier Tokyo Sexwale. He was elected as a member of the South African Parliament's lower house in 1997.

(snip)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Feinstein

[Beastly Boy]

18. Karl Marx, a descendant from a long line of Rabbis, was a notorious antisemite.

I may be wrong, but I don't think antisemitism is genetically transmitted.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Which part of the video do you believe was actually untrue? n/t

[Beastly Boy]

22. Did I accuse anyone of lying? I don't recall.

As I recall, I didn't even accuse anyone (other than Karl Marx) of being antisemitic. I merely stated, in response to you bringing up the author's mother, that antisemitism is not a genetically inherited trait.

I don't believe Mr Feinstein ever addressed any of his genetic predispositions, not in this particular video anyway.

[Uncle Joe]

24. genetic predispositions? n/t

[Beastly Boy]

25. What about them? Did Mr Feinstein address any?

I didn't. On the contrary, I stated there are none that relate to antisemitism. Do you think I am wrong?

[Uncle Joe]

26. Per post #23, he's apparently against apartheid and corruption. n/t

[Beastly Boy]

28. Per Post #2,

he calls Israelis "racist white supremacists" and claims that "the MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS don't consider Paleatinians as humans."

A rather biased and fact-free statement.

Note, I am still not accusing anyone of lying or being antisemitic, so don't go there.

On edit: not accusing anyone except Karl Marx.

[Uncle Joe]

29. What do you believe is happening in Gaza and the West Bank?

Is that biased?

[Beastly Boy]

30. Why are you asking for my opinion on something other than what I commented on?

I am not biting.

[Uncle Joe]

31. You don't need to. n/t

[Beastly Boy]

32. That's right. Which makes the question all the more perplexing.

[Martin68]

4. No it is not antisemitic, and it is not trash. You are in denial, hiding behind the anti-semitic card.

It is objective and factual. It is time to recognize - admit - what is really happening. Netenyahu's goal is to depopulate and annex Gaza, and Tump supports him. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization that committed war crimes against hundreds of Israeli citizens. But killing tens of thousands of Gazan's and leveling acres of residential buildings, blocking food and medicine deliveries, ordering thousands of civilians to evacuate without providing alternative places to go are war crime orders of magnitude worse than anything Hamas did. Allowing illegal settlement of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers was bad enough, but this is too much of any human being to countenance. It is indeed genocide by any measure.

[Mosby]

5. Quote: "THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELI CITIZENS DON'T CONSIDER PALESTINIANS HUMAN"

END QUOTE.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW?

[Martin68]

6. What percentage of Israeli citizens support the current war in Gaza?

[Beastly Boy]

27. Polls suggest that only 21% of Israelis don't want the war to end,

provided that all the hostages are released.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/69-of-israelis-54-of-coalition-voters-back-ending-war-in-exchange-for-hostages-poll/

But I don't see how this excuses the author's allegedly antisemitic statements one way or the other.

[Martin68]

36. Your statistic doesn't answer my question. Of course, most Israelis "want the war to end." The relevant

question is, what percent believe the current resumption of total war is the best way to end the war? What percent support Netenyahu's plan to defat Hamas by destroying 90% of Gaza?

[Beastly Boy]

46. I couldn't find any current polls (newer than half year old) that answers your question with the specificity you demand.

I doubt very much that you will find a poll that contains anything resembling your question either: no halfass legitimate poling organization would include such loaded questions in their surveys.

It is, however, easy to extrapolate that a significant majority of Israelis do not favor a war for reasons other than releasing the hostages. Duh.

If this is not sufficient for you, all I can suggest is find a less than legitimate pollster to ask your question.

[Martin68]

49. If what you write is true, that there are no polls you trust to provide information regarding the percentage of

Israelis who support Netanyahu's war on Gaza, how do you know a majority (more than 50) of Israelis don't support the war? You seem to be on very shaky ground when you SHOUT IN ALL CAPS that "THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELI CITIZENS DON'T CONSIDER PALESTINIANS HUMAN" is a false statement. If they support the bombing campaign then there is strong evidence that they do not consider the people dying by the thousands in Gaza to be human beings. How else could you explain their support of mass slaughter?

[Beastly Boy]

50. I wrote that your expectations of polling are not legitimate.

Your expectations carry a bias that would skew the polling answers in the direction you desire. No legitimate pollster with any degree of integrity would consider engaging in such quackery.

It is Mr. Feinstein, not I, who is quoted to say ""THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELI CITIZENS DON'T CONSIDER PALESTINIANS HUMAN" in all caps. And, since he does not back his statement up with any evidence, he, not I, is indeed on shaky ground. It is not on me to prove a negative. It's on him to back up what he says with evidence. How does HE know his statement is not false?

The question then is not how I know what neither you nor I nor Mr. Feinstein can confirm or deny is true or false (you can't prove a negative, duh!), it is why you, in the absence of any evidence, presume that Mr. Feinstein's statement is true. Why, given a direct quote by Mr Feinstein, are you presuming that my quoting Mr Feinstenin constitutes shaky ground? Why, in the absence of any evidence, are you presuming that the majority of Israelis support the war in Gaza? Why do you presume that "they", whoever you are referring to, support the bombing campaign? And what is the "strong evidence" that their presumed support of the war in Gaza, and consequently presumed support of the bombing campaign, "constitutes strong evidence that they do not consider the people dying by the thousands in Gaza to be human beings" That's a hell of a chain of presumptions, one conditional on the previous one down the chain being taken for granted, you are peddling here!

Meanwhile, the absence of evidentiary basis for your presumptions only confirms the bias so evident in Mr. Feinstein's statement, and the only issue remaining is whether Mr. Feinstein's statement is antisemitic or not. No need for explanation of "their" imaginary support for anything figures into addressing this issue.

[Martin68]

52. It is your assumptions that fly in the face of the reality on the ground in Gaza. The bombing

of thousands of civilians, the murder of first responders with clearly marked vehicles, and the denial of deliveries of desperately needed food and medicine are all clear evidence that Israelis that support Netanyahu's war in Gaza do not consider the Palestinians to be human. These are CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. the only question is whether A MAJORITY of Israelis support the war. I don't know the answer to that, and apparently you neither know nor care. I'm willing to give the majority of Israelis the benefit of the doubt if they don't support the war in Gaza, but you can't answer that question. So you have no standing whatsoever to make your claim that the statement is proof of antisemitism.

[Beastly Boy]

53. What assumption are you talking aboutg?

I didn't assume anything that I cannot back up, and I didn't challenge anything that you can.

No wonder you are deflecting.

[Martin68]

56. Your assumption is that a majority of Israelis view Palestinians as fully human. You have not provided any

evidence of that and keep deflecting instead.

[Beastly Boy]

57. Like I said, one cannot prove a negative.

And your insistence that I must do so to your satisfaction is getting a bit annoying.

Good bye.

[Martin68]

58. Bye. See you around.

[AloeVera]

63. Nearly 60%.

https://www.jns.org/poll-60-of-israelis-back-return-to-fighting-in-gaza/

Of course you never got a straight response. Lol.

[Beastly Boy]

66. It seems that you followed my advice to Martin68: find a less than legitimate pollster to ask your question

Direct Polls is a user-controlled AI driven engine.

From their web site:

AI-Powered Political Predictive Engine

Our first-of-its-kind predictive and interactive tool allows you to adjust variable inputs to forecast polling outputs with precision. By leveraging an ever growing dataset, the machine learning dashboard improves with each application.

Whoever hires them, defines the parameters of their polling and, therefore, poll results. If Martin68 were to hire this outfit, they would have had complete control over the methodology and the means to keep changing it until they got exactly the results they wanted.

Thank you for this straight response: hell no, there is no legitimate polling that gives answers to the question with the specificity Martin68 demands.

[Martin68]

68. Why not?

[Beastly Boy]

69. Why not use illegitimate polling to force an illegitimate point?

You tell me.

And while you are soul-searching for the answer that will not leave you cringing, consider how the absence of evidentiary basis for your presumptions confirms the apparently antisemitic bias so evident in Mr. Feinstein's statement.

[AloeVera]

71. Wrong.

It was a survey of over 500 Israelis, representative of the population. One simple question, limited answers. No manipulation.

Direct Polls, which accurately predicted the results of the Jewish state’s most recent general election in 2022, surveyed a representative sample of 506 Israeli adults on March 17. (The margin of error is plus or minus 4.5 percentage points at a confidence level of 95%, Direct Polls said.)

From their website:
Polling & Surveys
We design, execute, and analyze polling surveys and research surveys to offer data-driven and easy-to-understand insights that empower strategic and informed decision-making.

You have somehow managed to skip over that part and hone in on one separate, unrelated service which is political forecasting. As in predicting who's gonna win an election.

Now you're gonna argue until the cows come home rather than admit - an error? or more? - I won't be here though. Have fun.

[Beastly Boy]

73. It is not the number of Israelis surveyed, and not other clients of this pollster that is in question.

It is the methodology of the pollster, which, as a marketing strategy, they place in the hands of their clients, be they government, corporations, media or individuals, and which the clients can refine an infinite number of times to get the results they desire.

You don't even know who the client that controlled this survey is, or whether or not there were more than one question in the survey, or whether the same 500 Israelis replied to each question or each version of the question refined by the client, or the number of refinements each question undertook.

In this respect, it is funny that you accuse me of overlooking the quote you cited. I didn't overlook it, I deemed it to be redundant: it is beyond question that the client-controlled data, designed, executed and analyzed by an AI-driven engine of this outfit will eventually produce the outcomes that the client desires to obtain, especially considering the AI-generated insights they may receive to make their surveys fit the desired outcomes, with a 4.5 percent margin error and a confidence level of 95%.

I am beyond ecstatic to admit that I overlooked the aforementioned quote. It reinforces my argument in ways I thought unnecessary. I owe you a measure of gratitude for shaming me into including it. Mea culpa.

[Martin68]

67. I Never got a direct response, and the excuse was "you can't prove a negative." Acknowledging the percentage

of Israelis who fully support Netanyahu's military policies in Gaza is not proving a negative.

[Beastly Boy]

70. You got plenty of responses, and in a fit of wisdom, you decided not to reply.

The only person who did reply, cited an illegitimate source. It proves nothing, which is slightly lower on the proof scale than proving a negative.

So you are back to square one.

[AloeVera]

72. Lol

This polling firm is used by all sectors of Israeli society. Government, media, health, law etc etc.

I have already addressed your rather curious attempt to discredit this pollster based on misinformation. I'm sure it was an honest mistake.

[Beastly Boy]

74. I really appreciate you addressing my rather curious attempt to not beat a dead horse.

But, since you insisted, you can see the results in my reply to the aforementioned post.

On the second thought, maybe you shouldn't. You ain't gonna like the spectacle of it. It's a dead horse, after all.

[AloeVera]

35. Truth won't be silenced forever.

Especially here on DU.

At least 1,720 babies under one killed. Little babies, real babies...

At least 17,400 children killed.

If these were Jewish or American kids, that woman in the video who said she doesn't give a shit would surely be calling it a Holocaust and weeping for those children.

The reason she doesn't, like too many people, is that Palestinians are not seen as human beings. They will just grow up to be "Arabs" as the other woman said. From that I gather she doesn't think "Arabs" are worthy of life like every one who IS human.

Those kinds of attitudes - some would call it a form of racism - are what led to the acceptance of the savage retribution and murder inflicted on Palestinians and of the proposed ethnic cleansing. Only 2% - two percent!! - of Israeli Jews find the ethnic cleansing, disguised as"voluntary migration" immoral. The other 98% can't imagine themselves in that awful predicament because empathy is not afforded to "Arabs".

[Beastly Boy]

47. Your outrage and interpretations aside, none of this addresses alleged antisemitic remarks by the author.

It is his remarks (in addition to the source being cited) that compromises the author's integrity.

And to validate the integrity of the statistics you gave, it would be helpful if you cited the their sources.

[LexVegas]

7. That entire youtube channel is antisemitic, pro terrorist trash. nt

[Hieronymus Phact]

8. born of apes and pigs

[Uncle Joe]

9. Do you believe that all people of the world are religious fundamentalists believing their "Holy books" to the letter,

and should be judged by this?

[Hieronymus Phact]

10. All people in the world?

What an ignorant thing to say. People believe whatever they want to believe.

[Uncle Joe]

11. It was just a question to address your ambiguous statement.

What precisely did you mean by that?

[Hieronymus Phact]

14. It's not ambiguous at all.

[AloeVera]

33. Oh but it is.

Though apparently not to you. Is it some sort of secret?

[Hieronymus Phact]

37. If it's a mystery, you could look it up or something.

[AloeVera]

38. Oh, I know the SOURCE...

But was mystified how it fit into the thread. Still am.

[Hieronymus Phact]

39. really

Can't make the connection between dehumanizing people ...and dehumanizing people. Too much of a stretch is it?

[AloeVera]

40. It is in this case.

There's lots of bad stuff said in the Old Testament too. But only one Amalek-style slaughter happening in real life, today. Which is what we are discussing, not ancient Holy Text.

But I guess anything will serve as a distraction from what's been done in and to Gaza.

[Hieronymus Phact]

41. It's being taught to children today

and It's integrally related to whats happening in gaza.
That your carefully studied myopia prefers to ignore these connections is on you.

[AloeVera]

42. What's happening in Gaza is on Israel.

It's on you if you don't see that.

But really, I wonder what possible reason Palestinians would have to hate Israel?? Any clue?

Never mind.

[Hieronymus Phact]

43. i gave you a clue

you ignored it.

[AloeVera]

44. If you seriously think...

That the animosity towards the State of Israel stems from some obscure verses in the Koran... I honestly don't have another word to say to you. Bye.

[Hieronymus Phact]

45. It's animosity towards Jews.

It predates Israel, and it's still being taught today, but please keep pretending it doesn't exist.

[kacekwl]

15. Not yet

comparable to Gaza the US is trying to catch up with their own human rights violations that few are taking about.

[Uncle Joe]

17. I see a direct connection.

[Eko]

34. Lets not forget,

A far higher number of Jewish Israelis (42%) is in favor of annexation of the West Bank without equal rights for Palestinians, the highest ever recorded in the Pulse survey.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-mirror-images-of-fear-and-distrust-between-israelis-and-palestinians/

[Beastly Boy]

48. "A far higher number" than what? Seems like you are quotng out of context.

The last I checked, 42% doesn't constitute the majority of Jewish Israelis, let alone all Israelis.

[Eko]

51. I never said or implied

That was a majority.

[Beastly Boy]

54. Ok, then, let's not forget that the majority of Jewish Israelis is not in favor of annexing the West Bank.

And let's not forget that some 30% of Israelis are not Jewish either.

[Eko]

59. Sure, but 42% of Jewish Israelis are.

And not just annexing it but annexing it without equal rights for Palestinians. That's 4 out of 10 Jewish Israelis that you meet in Israel think that they should just take over land and have what? People with less rights than them? That is horrendous.

[Beastly Boy]

60. A majority of Jewish Israelis in a liberal democratic state being against annexation is horrendous? Seriously?

Not to mention the 2.1 million Israeli Palestinians who already have equal rights. In Israel.

What other country in the world has more Palestinians with equal rights?

Not a single one. Not even in the entire Arab world put together. That's reality, not poll results. Israel is #1 in the number of Palestinians who have equal citizenship rights. In the world.

Now, that's horrendous! Far more horrendous than the minority opinion of Israeli Jews. Don't you think? Don't you?

[Eko]

61. You keep leaving a part out for some reason.

There are 2 qualifiers there, "Jewish Israelis (42%) is in favor of annexation of the West Bank without equal rights for Palestinians".
1. Annexation of the West Bank.
2. Without equal rights for Palestinians
As you keep trying to change the subject to just annexation of the west bank, sure, if that was the case it would be bad but not horrendous, but when you add "Without equal rights for Palestinians" it indeed becomes horrendous.

[Beastly Boy]

62. I am adding to the part you are laser focused on, at the expense of a far larger part you are leaving out.

What your numbers show is that a minority of Jewish Israelis expressing their views on annexing the West Bank without equal rights for Palestinians.
This leaves out two rather significant groups out of your consideration:

1. The majority of Jewish Israelis who do not express these views.
2. The majority of non-Jewish Israelis who do not express these views.

Make it three:
3. The Palestinian Israelis with equal rights. This group is significant because it shows the reality, not the sentiment of a minority of the majority of Israelis, of the Palestinians living in Israel. And they make up nearly a third of all Israelis. It shows that your horror over a hypothetical does not reflect the reality of Palestinians in Israel. Moreover, compared to the horrors of Palestinians all over the Arab world, whose reality is the absence of equal rights, your focus on the hypothetical is rather telling. For some reason, there is a reality that you are not horrified of nearly as strongly as an expression of an equivalent, but a merely hypothetical sentiment among Israeli Jews... Did I mention that you are laser focused on the opinions of a minority of Israeli Jews and paying no attention to any other statistics?

Time to check your horror meter. It is malfunctioning. Badly.

[Eko]

64. That is straight out funny.

"Time to check your horror meter. It is malfunctioning. Badly."
Exactly where would your horror meter be at if 42% of white Americans think we should take over Canada and not give them full rights? You gonna be like, "Oh, its no big deal, your WTF meter is set so low if your latte is not perfect you will turn into a karen" That is so hilarious that you would even attempt to defend this. I am totally amazed. If dump decides to start talking about it more and 42% of white Americas think we should invade them and not give them full rights you would be like, Cool, no problem. Right? There are like the 10% of white Americans who don't think that and the other 48% of non white who we can assume are against that. So a majority of people are against that. I am sure that since you are aware of the majority of Americans being against taking over Canada and not giving them rights then there is no reason to think that dump will do that. Right? I just want to make sure you are on the record thinking that over 40% of a people thinking that another people dont deserve human rights is ok. Because just a little more think is isn't. You dont want of focus on the almost half that think those things, the almost half that seem to control the government, shot, less that that support our fuckeries. If 42% of our country thought that, we would no longer be a democrarcy at all but a fascist country,defend that.

[Beastly Boy]

65. In a totoally unnecessary response to your ridiculous question:

I would say that 42% of Americans also believe in creationistm (https://news.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx). I would say fuck the 42%. I would say that the 42% does not create any sense of obligation on the 58% majority that do not believe in creationism.

I would certainly not clutch my peals screaming of the horrors of them expressing their beliefs that have no reflection in reality, nor do their beliefs dictate any prospects of them becoming a matter of foreign policy of the US. Just because 42% says the world is 10,000 years old, the world does not suddenly become 10,000 years old. Their beliefs, which they have every right to express, are not horrifying at all. By contrast, it is the countries like Afghanistan, that actually codify and enforce religious dogma, that are horrifying.

Of course, there is no such thing as ethnic Canadians with no sovereign rights to the territory under US occupation and at the risk of being annexed, with or without having equal rights, so your analogy is... well, no comment.

[PufPuf23]

55. POTUS Biden wanted to end the Gaza War and supported a two-state solution..

Trump and Netanyahu differ from POTUS Biden as do many in Israel and most of the world community.