Feminists
Related: About this forumFellow feminists... what the fuck do I do?
Male ally here... I've got one hell of a conundrum here. To simplify this before I tell you my tale, it is essentially "Why do some women keep falling for really bad, bad men?"
So here it goes. I have a niece, she's 21 now. She's got a bad record with shitty men. At first there was bf 1 who weirded her out at one point and she found someone else, she went to bf 2 and was off and on for 6 years because he was a cheater. big deal right? high school guys tend to cheat but it gets worse...
She considered bf1 her first, her high school sweetheart. She went back to him. We didn't hear much from her during that time. She started staying over at his place, she would keep in touch with my wife (they're close) and she would complain about his drug habits, always borrowing money from her and whatnot. (yeah he turned out bad no shit)
We told her that he's a dead beat, he's using her, get out and do your thing. Eventually she told us the place they were staying at was about to have the power cut because the tenants couldn't afford it. This. was why she eventually cut ties with him.
So why not sooner? well, since she was out of it she started to tell us more about what happened during that time. He beat her. He forced her against her will to do other things that I won't mention but I'm certain you can guess.
We, the family were furious with him, but as with all cases of man against woman violence, if it's reported MONTHS after the incident, good luck.
in the end, we could take comfort in knowing that that man was being us... but my niece doesn't want to take our advice of "you're young, ready to start a college education or career, whatever is cool with you, so just be single, find yourself, build yourself and meet someone special along the way"
again. she's found a new guy. she already told us how he lost his last job for yelling at a woman. While hanging out with him he praised her for "not being the type of woman who tells me to stop playing my video games". and what's worse... he's apart of some Meninist MRA group on Facebook.
fuck our lives I'm thinking... on one hand I tell myself, my niece is not my property and her life is her own. I have to let go. but then on the other hand, he last bf strangled her and forced her to do things against her will. and I wonder, would she ever have left that piece of shit if the power were never cut off in that building?
what red flag would it take for my niece to realize, I'm going to say no to these men? what the hell can I do? I'm angry, I'm scared, I'm worried.... I don't know what to do. please help.
zazen
(2,978 posts)Trust me. I've got a lot of experience in this.
I appreciate your solidarity against male (and all relationship) violence and believe your heart's in the right place, and I'm sorry for the grief you're experiencing.
After years of activism around all of this--battering and addiction--and reading hundreds of books and articles, I can tell you that Lundy Bancroft's work is by far the most incisive on this topic (from the point of view of the abused person) in that he gets at the micro- and macrocosm of the issue as well as integrates the wisdom of self-help groups like Al-Anon, particularly in "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" which is co-authored with a really sharp relational therapist whose name escapes me right now.
I highly recommend you get copies (used are online) of Bancroft's first and second books for you and all of your family (and hopefully your niece, but who knows if she'll bother) to read so you are all on the same page.
Based on personal experience, really good Al-Anon (or any support group for loved ones of people struggling with "isms" meetings are critical to helping you and your loved ones detach from what in your niece's life you cannot control (which is like, everything). The serenity prayer is amazing.
In addition, reaching out to a local battered women's shelter to find out how to learn more and how you might help victims of relational abuse _who are ready to be helped_ might give you a focus "to change the things I can." There are people who want your help now, and perhaps all you can do is help them. "Accepting the things I cannot change" doesn't mean liking them or giving in. It simply means redirecting your energy where it is most useful for yourself and your fellow human beings.
Paradoxically, at least IMO, when we let go of changing the behavior of the troubled people in our lives and change ourselves, they are more rather than less likely to model our healthier behavior. Battering is tricky because at some point your niece will have far fewer safe choices than she has right now when she's choosing to be with this predator. But if she really gets that you all are giving her space to make her own choices but actively helping battered women as a way to redirect that energy, she may see on a more profound level that, because you all respect her existential right to choose, she can respect her own power to make better choices. She may not. That's the faith part, for you anyway.
THAT's the balance that I used to find that my radical feminist friends in the battered women's movement (OTOH) and 12 step groups (OTOH) didn't get--abused women are not totally victims, and we're not responsible for relational violence either (which is what often sends women to Al-Anon meetings) but there are choices in the middle. Bancroft's work is the best by far to strike that balance.
I speak from 40 years of painful experience here. PM me if you need more support and best of luck.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)be at peace with that which I cannot control. do something positive with that energy that should hopefully influence my niece to think better of herself?
this is good advice.
and I will try this.
but what if it doesn't work? I guess I'm prone to blame myself for things out of my control but I love my niece.
I'll try and put my fears aside. my strength can influence others. so I'll go for that.
thank you.
zazen
(2,978 posts)But there's a lot to do to learn more about this dynamic and ID wherein it might have originated in her--and help you and other family members learn about relational dynamics. Lots of good stuff to learn about what we do right . . . that's why I can't recommend Bancroft's work enough. He's worked with batterer groups for 20 years--and he links their strategies to larger politically oppressive strategies too.
He was the first to make the clear argument that their behavior originates quite logically out of their (distorted) beliefs, not their "emotions." He applied cognitive psychology to what they're doing. It's really eye-opening and helps you at once dispense with bullshit guidance from the many misguided therapists and others who don't know any better.
There's a lot of insight that can help you and your family personally and politically while you work to let go of your illusion that you all are responsible for your niece's choices.
I know it's hard. It's like overcoming addiction--a minute at a time, an hour at a time. And expect to backslide. But there's a LOT you CAN do to further understanding of relational abuse even if you can't influence your niece, especially given that you're a male and young men can benefit from your example. We need you!
Nay
(12,051 posts)second the recommendation of Bancroft's books - they are essential. Al-Anon is also a lifesaver for relatives.
Was your niece abused in any way while growing up? That's one reason some women choose awful men -- they learned early. You may want to offer to pay for counseling, if you haven't tried that already.
What does your niece do for a living? If she is doing low-pay work like retail, can you offer to pay for a 2-yr degree in a health care field for her, so she can have something else to aim for besides another useless guy? Of course, this all depends on your ability to help, her ability at schoolwork, and your willingness to really put your hands in. You know your niece the best -- I'm just throwing out ideas that may work, depending upon her.
Oneironaut
(5,762 posts)She's an adult now. Maybe she'll stop being attracted to losers. Maybe she won't. There's not much you can do.
aswanson
(50 posts)I think first of all, you have to be careful not to blame the woman. Bev Gooden has a lot of interesting information on this topic--she created the movement #WhyIStayed. You can find her articles by googling her.