Race & Ethnicity
Related: About this forumWhen Cleopatra was alive, she wasn't categorised by the colour of her skin
In 1751, the great American polymath Benjamin Franklin worried about the small number of purely white People in the World. All Africa, he wrote, is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny... And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also. Only the Saxons
[and] the English make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
The question of who is white? might seem to us today as self-evident. Yet it has over the past three centuries been fiercely contested. Many groups we now think of as white were certainly not seen as such for much of that period, from the Irish to the Slavs, from Italians to Jews. It took a long process of social negotiation and conflict before they were admitted into the club of whiteness.
Today, too, racial boundaries remain in dispute. The latest who is white? controversy has emerged from the decision by Netflix to cast a black actor, Adele James, as Cleopatra in its new drama series, Queen Cleopatra.
As with many such debates, the issues are shrouded in layers of myth and ideology. Much of the controversy arises from the desire to impose contemporary notions of race and identity, of whiteness and blackness, on an ancient world that thought very differently about such issues. Even identities such as Egyptian, Greek, Macedonian and African have significantly different connotations today than they did two millennia ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/23/when-cleopatra-was-alive-she-wasnt-categorised-by-colour-of-her-skin
Fascinating article. I believe in one race only....HUMAN.
marble falls
(62,041 posts)multigraincracker
(34,057 posts)Pinkish Gray.
It helps to never call a person a racist. I use bigot now.
marble falls
(62,041 posts)Croney
(4,919 posts)usually seen them stereotyped as blonde white people. My opinion is that most people in the world are a mix of many races. I see no value in thinking otherwise.
rsdsharp
(10,114 posts)It must be all that winter sun.
Jilly_in_VA
(10,875 posts)saw some Sami, who are not exactly blonde. Ever seen one?
rsdsharp
(10,114 posts)WalkerinSC
(248 posts)Hard to believe we still judge people entirely on nothing more than outer appearance. We don't even treat car purchases that way ...usually (by Gawd this car is a complete piece of garbage from an engineering standpoint but I am going spend $50,000 on it because it's the right color versus that other car)
eallen
(2,972 posts)They lived in their own city. They married among the other Greek-speaking elite. And intermarried. Sometimes closely, hence Ptolemy Philadelphus. We know their family tree, because that also was important to them.
What goes wrong with most portrayals of Cleopatra isn't how she looked, but who the Ptolemies were. They were foreigners who ruled Egypt by right of conquest, quite conscious of their own separate origin and language and heritage. Identifying Cleopatra with the people she ruled would be like identifying Robert Bulwer-Lytton as Keralan, because he was made Viceroy of India. The late 19th c. rulers of India weren't from India. The Ptolemies weren't from Egypt.
BWdem4life
(2,462 posts)is "Black" capitalized only in the U.S. now? Is britain behind the times? What gives?
Jilly_in_VA
(10,875 posts)some Brits only just got past saying "coloured". /s (Which was in use here when I was young.)
And speaking of which, there was a guy whom some of us old folk may remember called Harry Golden, who back in the 1950s and early 1960s was the editor of something called The Carolina Israelite, and also wrote some books that were memoirs of his youth growing up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, as well as humorous observations on the world. One comment of his that I particularly remember concerned the labeling of accommodations of water fountains and such as "Colored". He queried, "Shouldn't ours say 'Colorless'?"
Mark.b2
(464 posts)I don't understand why anyone would care.
Jilly_in_VA
(10,875 posts)and always have to make an uproar.