American Jews must demand more from our progressive allies

[MyMission]

...But like many American Jews, I also felt betrayed. Rather than a full-throated condemnation of the slaughter in Israel, far too many supposedly progressive allies held their powder. They provided “context” or argued both sides were to blame and offered a host of “yes, but” responses:

'Yes, what Hamas did was bad, but Israel brought it on itself.'

'Yes, murdering babies is awful, but Israel has been doing the same for years.'

'Yes, violence is wrong, but what option did the Palestinians have?'

These are charges reminiscent of the age-old antisemitic trope that Jews are responsible for their own suffering.

Others placed all the “responsibility” on Israel, while some particularly depraved souls actually celebrated the massacre, posting pictures of paragliders with Palestinian flags as if Hamas’ barbarism was not only justified but a cause for celebration.

But my palpable feelings of abandonment and isolation are hardly unique these days. American Jews are angry. They feel abandoned and discarded, their suffering again ignored. But many are now finding their voice and demanding that the political left (where most Jews feel at home) finally start taking antisemitism seriously....

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/american-antisemitism-jewish-left-rcna121397

[elleng]

1. Oh sure, we do demands good, eh?

[walkingman]

2. Goofiest thing I have ever heard. If the jewish community thinks that their progressive

allies don't take them seriously then maybe they should open their ears and listen to the GOP.

I think it is misplaced criticism at best and down right naivety at worst.

[MyMission]

14. Are you even Jewish?

This is the Jewish group. I don't recall you participating in any discussions here in the past.

If the article I shared is the goofiest thing you ever heard, then maybe you should open your ears and listen to the GOPQ.

As we say in the South, bless your heart!

[walkingman]

19. Sorry - I wasn't aware that it was exclusive. You are right. I am not Jewish.

Just giving my opinion.

[MyMission]

23. This group is a "safe space", not exclusive

Most in this group are Jewish, but there are friends and family of Jews here too.

We expect courtesy and respect on this forum. Visitors are welcome to offer support but are not welcome to bash or belittle. We don't think it's polite to go into any group forum and call their posts goofy and naive. If your "sorry" was an honest apology it is accepted.

That's why I posted here. I wanted to share and discuss this with my fellow Jews here on DU. I've seen many of their replies on various threads throughout DU, defending and advocating for Israel along with others, against those who are not sympathetic. We are a minority and our group has been silent on this.

I appreciate that you were just giving your opinion. There's been a lot of that on the general forum. Most Jews understand or fear that we are in danger as a people, and we have been raised to say "never again" but there's a problem.

There are about 16.1 Million Jews Worldwide, 7.1 Million of us in Israel
There are about 160.1 Shia Muslims worldwide, terrorist extremists.
While there are about 2 Billion Muslims worldwide, only about 15% are radical, but that's still a lot more of them, people who want to destroy us.

As for the rest of the world (and DU), there are many who support and defend Israel and the Jewish people, and many who do not. Lots of hate groups and antisemitism around the globe. I must add that Jews and Israel are intertwined, like it or not, and we diaspora Jews and Israelis certainly grapple with that, but it is what it is. Israel is the Jewish state, homeland of and for our people, our tribe. Even before this war started, Jews have noted an increase in antisemitism worldwide. Lately I've started to ask silently when I encounter discussions, as many Jews have, "Are you with us or against us?"

Below I've copied the Jewish forum rules. When I went to the page it's on I learned that 48 DU members have trashed this forum, so they don't want to see anything posted here, are not interested or don't care, or don't like Jews. It's not a large number, but I do wonder who they are! This is the Jewish group.

Statement of Purpose
Discuss Judaism's beliefs, share faith experiences, discuss anti-Semitism, post prayer requests, discuss Jewish faith, traditions, religious heroes, holidays, etc.

[yardwork]

20. I don't agree with this take, at all.

I'm not Jewish but I certainly see this writer's point.

Also, I think that there are outside influences at work on the internet trying to divide Americans, again. Let's not fall for it.

[usonian]

3. Tired of bullshit "whatabout?"

Six words a loser uses a lot.

1. whatabout?
2. but
3. however
4. woulda
5. coulda
6. shoulda

Not that President Biden's speech had zero of these.

[Deuxcents]

4. I'm not understanding what more Biden could have said

Or done to show “ unequivocally “ support for Israel. His comments were compassionate with empathy for the innocents and just today, humanitarian aid was delivered to the region. I’m not happy about more military assistance but I’m not a general and have to trust those in charge know what they’re doing. Just what are the American Jews wanting to happen that the feel Biden has betrayed them? I mean no offense to anyone but I am wanting to understand this

[MyMission]

5. It's not about Biden

It's progressive students and administration at elite universities, and others who blame Israel or show support for Hamas or believe Israel deserves or brought on the brutal attacks. As much support as there has been for Israel, there's been a lot of support for Hamas citing the Palestinian plight, and a lot of judgement against Israel, and a lot of latent antisemitic sentiments.

And some government employees resigning or speaking out because they don't support Biden's policy.

[Deuxcents]

7. I understand the support for Palestinians

But I haven’t seen support for Hamas..agreement that Hamas is a terrorist organization and they represent the Palestinians is what I’ve read. Who represents the people of Gaza that aren’t affiliated with Hamas?

[MyMission]

10. Fringe-Left Groups Express Support for Hamas's Invasion and Brutal Attacks in Israel

Some fringe-left groups are aligning with anti-Zionist organizations in the wake of Hamas's attack on Israel, by expressing support for Hamas’s atrocities in the name of “resistance” and “liberation.” The Party for Socialism and Liberation, the World Workers Party, chapters of the Democratic Socialists for America, independent chapters of Black Lives Matter and more have shared these views in official statements and on social media. These groups are also helping to organize in-person, anti-Israel events, where participants are sharing further support for terrorism and violence, as well as expressing antisemitic rhetoric.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/fringe-left-groups-express-support-hamass-invasion-and-brutal-attacks-israel

I also understand showing support for the Palestinian civilians.
Many just want to live their lives, in peace, but many are raised with hate and want to destroy Israel, Jews, and reclaim Palestine. Perhaps there are so many children because many are breeding fighters for their cause, and birth control is probably taboo. I would think we need a peacekeeping force there after this war ends, with the hope and purpose to establish a free and democratic society. Otherwise other factions will try to seize control, like Hezbollah, Taliban, isis, Islamic jihad, etc.

You ask a good question about who represents the people of Gaza?
Hamas was elected in 2006, last election they had! Kind of what we fear could happen here if tfg gets back in office, especially with gerrymandering and taking over the state legislatures, the school and election boards, and various courts. Imagine a USA run by the GOPQ...

I see Hamas and the GOPQ as extreme political parties advocating violence and retribution and subjugation and censorship and hate. The people that support them fall into a few categories. Some are mean, hateful, or self-righteous to start, others are brainwashed or go along out of pressure or fear or convenience or greed, some are plain stupid, some are misguided, and many are delusional and living in their own (alternate) reality with alternative facts.
Not all Palestinians support Hamas, not all Republicans support tfg, but a great many do and would go along with whatever agenda and directives the leaders set. I don't trust republicans. As Americans our reputation was damaged when tfg was in charge; our allies didn't trust us. Didn't mean we were all bad, but the tone was set. The same goes for Palestinians, with Hamas in charge. Hamas is the ruling party, the only party allowed, and their policies are anti-Israel. I don't trust them. I wish I could, as I wish I could trust rethugs, but their behaviors and "policies" prevent that, at the present time and for the foreseeable future.

[question everything]

11. As mentioned on Bill Maher the day after the attack Time Square was full of

protesters supporting Hamas. Not Palestinians but Hamas. And they were Euphoric.

As for Gazans who are against Hamas: they are arrested and tortured.

[yardwork]

18. Just weighing in here as an observer.

I'm not Jewish. I have observed support for Hamas and the Hamas attack on Israel in recent weeks. People at a university near where I live were holding banners with images of the Hamas paragliders who massacred Israelis. Other groups have shown similar images. This is support for Hamas.

The history is complicated, but it's not ok to support terrorist attacks. There is a rush to judge Israel by people who know very little about the complicated history of this region.

I feel that, yet again, outsiders who mean us harm are sowing confusion and chaos. We can avoid being taken in. Pause to recognize all victims of terrorist. Pause to recognize the long and horrific history of antisemitism in the world. Don't jump in,

[yardwork]

21. Did you read the whole column? The writer praises Biden.

Did you see this paragraph at the link?

The flip-side to this painful story is the steadfast support of elected Democrats, in particular President Joe Biden, who, in the words of so many Jewish friends this week, has acted like a mensch. These declarations of support provide reassurance, even if the abandonment by erstwhile allies — coupled with the inability to empathize with Jewish suffering — may leave more indelible marks.

[madaboutharry]

6. I have a bit of news for Mr. Cohen.

I am not sure who these “progressive allies” are that Mr. Cohen speaks of, but if he had been listening he would have known long ago that the word “allies” doesn’t apply.
There is a point in politics on the left that completely careens off the radar as far as having any support for Israel or the Israeli people. Another thing, calling one’s self a progressive doesn’t insulate a person from being anti-Semitic. Two things can be true at the same time.
It has been like this for decades. He shouldn’t be surprised.

[MyMission]

16. It still surprises me

Many marginalized and minority groups are defended and supported by liberals and progressives, including Jews. Yet it still surprises me when I hear antisemitic sentiment from those who advocate for others. I understand that the far left careens off the radar, but it seems to me we should be seeing less of that rather than more as the years go by.

I think it surprises most Jews. We think we're accepted and included until we're not, and then we question why they don't accept us. Very often there is overt or underlying antisemitism. As much as we have lived with it as a people, it's still a surprise every time I encounter it, which happens in waves and bunches.
I've lived my life prepared for it but not expecting it. I expect better!

[question everything]

8. Here is one response from a professor at Columbia U

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218387677

[AZLD4Candidate]

9. Here's one from Cornell. He was excited it happened to Israel

Then doubled down on it, then apologized a day late and a dollar short a couple of days later.

https://cornellsun.com/2023/10/16/cornell-professor-exhilarated-by-hamass-attack-defends-remark/

[MyMission]

13. That's extreme

The other video is a righteous rant, in response to actions and reactions displayed by many, like in the video you shared.

That's why I brought this discussion here, to the Jewish group.
Did you see my post above comparing the GOPQ to Hamas?

[AZLD4Candidate]

17. Terrorism is terrorism. Sochastic terrorism like the GQP does is still terrorism. Hitler did it to soften up

Eastern Europe before invading.

[MyMission]

12. I saw that amazing response earlier

It's what inspired me to post the 2 articles I shared. There hasn't been much activity or discussion in the Jewish group over the last 2 weeks, because it was all over the rest of DU.

I wanted to bring some of that discussion here.
Never again also means we need to take action and speak out.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. It was amazing...just as "amazing" as the responses.

The attitudes here by many have been nothing but gaslighting, hate, and whataboutism. But, not unsurprising.

[yardwork]

22. It reminds me of Tankies.

There's this extraordinarily naive, romantic idea about Palestine that ignores actual history and behavior, and at the same time, an extreme view of Israel that is also very one-sided. It's like people are reading a fairy tale, with an evil ogre on one side and innocent children on the other.

And I think that comparison is apt, because fairy tales and other narratives have often been used by human cultures to create us vs. them beliefs.

In reality, human behavior is much more complicated. But it's human nature to simplify by dividing sides into good guys vs. bad guys.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. One

Thank you for this. I would prefer to read and discuss it within this group.

Two - it has been there all along. I'm not surprised by the Progressive Palestinian Coalition rearing its ugly head.

Third - never forget this in discussions . . .

Hamas and Israel signed a ceasefire in MAY 2023.

Only one side behaved like genocidal maniacs and broke it. THAT side deliberately put the citizens they represent as the Government Leadership in Palestine in harms way.

When 45 told the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by - my brother wrote a letter to the editor stating - We are not our Grandparents. Fluff Around and Find Out.

Some 52 year old man in Israel might have read that a few years ago and said - Yup. I'm onboard with that for Israel too.

And me? I agree with him. Israel operated in good faith, The Palestinian Political Leadership (Hamas) did not . . . the world now has to deal with the natural results of people who have had enough.

Remember - there was a Cease Fire in place since May. Hamas owns the reaction of Israel.

They own this.