I was thinking about the issues surrounding the hijab yesterday

[Coventina]

And, I wanted to post this here, before going into GD with it, to get your thoughts and feedback.

The central question seems to be about "choice" and freedom of religion, both things I fully support.

But here's where the support for veiling of women falls apart for me:

I recently heard an (unveiled) Muslim woman give a talk and she explained how the choice to wear the hijab is a personal one, between the woman and her relationship with God. That's just fine and dandy. I would never stand between anyone and their God.

After all, nuns in the Christian church (traditionally) also veil themselves, because they have become the brides of Christ.

But, wait a minute, Muslim women unveil for their husbands (and other women and sometimes other close male relations).

This is where it all falls apart for me.

Why does the husband (and other excepted parties) get the privileges of God?
Nuns don't unveil (traditionally) even for their fellow sisters in the convent.

If it truly is between the woman and her God, why does the husband get to be a party to that?

It all comes down to a cover (bad pun, I know) for misogyny.

This is why I am opposed to the hijab.

Having said that, I would never EVER condone attacking a woman by forcibly removing any part of her clothing.

I will politely disagree, give my reasons, and continue to fight misogyny wherever I find it, but that's as far as it goes.

Putting your hands on another is assault, pure and simple.

[guillaumeb]

1. If we support freedom of choice,

does that freedom only encompass those choices with which we agree? And you have already clearly indicated your support for choice. It seems to me, as a Christian male, that if a Muslim woman chooses to wear the veil, there is no reason for me or anyone else to question her motives.

And I know a few Muslim women who wear the veil, but they all state that the veil is only worn out of the home. They also talk about the veil as a symbol of modesty, but I have seen some veiled women wearing very tight pants so...........

Years ago, Catholic women all covered their heads when attending services. It was a custom until after the Vatican Council in the 1960s.

[Coventina]

2. Supporting freedom of choice does not extend to choices we find morally reprehensible.

For example, I would never support someone's choice to fly the Confederate flag.

It's a symbol of hate.

In the same way, I see the hijab as a symbol of hate toward women, because its use is contradictory in nature. There is no moral consistency in its use, as far as I can see.

What is the purpose of only wearing the veil outside of her home? Is she only modest in the eyes of God in public, but not in private?

It's exactly the opposite of wearing a headscarf in church, which is specifically a religious setting, and then set aside outside of the church. (Silly in my eyes, but at least it's donned only for the practice of a ceremony. Every religion involves some form of ceremonial attire in some capacity.)

[guillaumeb]

3. I would never fly the Confederate flag.

And I agree that it is a symbol of racism and hate. But I would not argue that flying that flag should be prohibited to individuals.

But my point remains that no matter how I see the wearing of the veil, I cannot speak for the motivation of those wearing the veil. One of my cousins was a cloistered Sister in Quebec. After taking the veil, she never left the house nor did she speak other than at certain times of the day. When we visited her, there was another Sister in the room while we visited. Her choice of taking up the veil was hers to make.

I suggest you ask some Muslim women for their feelings about the veil.

[Coventina]

4. I have spoken to a number of them.

Granted, all of the ones I have spoken to are here in the US, where they are given much more freedom than in the Muslim world.
So, they are inherently more privileged in their choices than most Muslim women.

My problem is that there is no moral consistency in the practice.

If they want to make one up that suits them, that's fine, but don't expect me to respect it, anymore than I respect snake-handling Pentecostals.