How many DUers have left or been booted because of DU politics?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

Having been here since 2004 I notice big changes over the years. The most fervent lefties are gone. Someone like me, who is on the verge of being booted, may just give up and leave. I'm not an absolutist. I'm neither a moderate or a liberal. I consider myself a progressive who is frustrated by our inability to articulate disagreement without breaking some rule that seems to err on the conservative side.

IMHO the rules are hurting us in the first election post the nullification of our Constitution. Evidence of that is: Trump every day, Mitch McConnell every day, Wiliiam Barr every day, Gorsuch & Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS itself - Bush v Gore/DC v Heller/Citizens United and because Putin helped trump win the EC*. (The EC, which did not fulfill its duty by being a check on the popular vote has not been articulated by our party.) These are not issues the MSM will address during the debates. The ramifications of that negligence, I feel, trickles down into DU and negatively effects us ALL, let alone the country as a whole.

All the above have contributed to twist the Constitution out of recognition. Yet here in the Democratic Underground, whose name has never bern more appropriate, we obey strictly enforced rules until we just CAN'T because we are being driven insane by an insane adversary and the thieves he has surrounded himself with.

Don't think I can take much more. I am curious to know if anyone else notice a culling of our herd? I will not be missed in this community, but others are already sorely missed. And I feel certain others will not contribute to such a tightly knit group. This is all very sad to have to post. I do it very hesitantly and with a heavy heart.

P.S. Big shout out and thanks to Kpete, who has kept me coming back for more.


* https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-electoral-college-was-meant-to-stop-men-like-trump-from-being-president/508310/

[irisblue]

1. I will miss you. I value your voice

[SleeplessinSoCal]

4. so sweet. thanks.

[irisblue]

5. Back at you

But I do get annoyed at other DUers and have to step away. That has be an exercise in frustration for me. But it was necessary

[MuseRider]

2. I have to really pick and choose what I can take

from day to day. It all depends on how I feel. I rarely go into the primary forum, I cannot take it anymore. I find I like people less and less as we go forward so I break away.

I have a lot of friends, like you do, after so many years. I take time to drop out and look away when I get upset. YMMV but that helps me a lot. I was almost entirely gone for several years. I am sure nobody missed me but I did miss some friends who were mostly gone when I came back.

The fluctuations are tougher now for me as I get older, it feels too much like High School fighting with many posters here and harder to find those who really want to talk about things. I include myself there, I am tempted from time to time to get in the mud and be stupid about it all.

I find it is nice to keep my old friends here and leave now and then or just not post. Every person like you who leaves make this place a bit sadder and less informative.

[blm]

30. ✔️

[beachbumbob]

3. we have to be very careful in what we post that may deviate from a very narrow and often

restrictive manner. The rules as such and as a private forum, doesn't take much to get sent off to the gulag. This post may be reported and bam

[marble falls]

53. It would take a lot more than being reported to get the boot, and in fact it would take five ...

hides in 90 days to be booted. Alerts are not automatic hides.

What do you think is alertable in your post. Heck if I can figure one out.

[quickesst]

6. I post...

.... exactly what I feel as long as I'm being honest with myself, and let the chips fall where they may. If at some point I cross a line too far, and get booted, it's not the end of the world. Hell, it's not even the end of the day.🐴

[SleeplessinSoCal]

7. that is why I posted this.

In the age of trump we are in here obeying rules that wont allow us to criticize a candidate. Or offer a critique in our own words. I have always tried to be articulate. And frustration going forward is bound to add unhealhy levels of stress.

I'm on a cycling machine at the gym as I type. Stress is building. BP and hot flashes are out of control. Having to carefully craft a criticism when a thoughtless word from a candidate cries out for a check could well hurt all our stress levels.

I miss the rowdy posters that drove me crazy. They were an important part of DU.

[quickesst]

8. the problem as I see it....

.... is that too many people confuse criticism with underhandedness. It's easy to spot, and I will call it out at every chance I get. Another thing is so much of what some call criticism is so petty that it is not worth spending too much time responding to. Even more amazing is that these same people believe they have hit upon the holy grail of criticism until the pettiness is exposed. That is usually when they retreat into the shadows until the next chance they get. Criticism should be voiced as long as it is legitimate criticism. The problem is the other side of the coin.

[Paka]

57. Amen to that.

What I find difficult is when simply reporting a fact, e.g., a voting record, it is immediaely jumped on as "trashing" the candidate. I've always thought the primary was a time to point out the differences so as to properly make an informed decision. I guess that no longer is the case in this new era of gutter politics.

[quickesst]

67. yep

It's okay to criticize, but one also has to prepare for the possibility of being shut down in one's tracks because one did not do their due diligence before voicing their criticism.

[marble falls]

58. You sign a ToS that you will not critcize Democrats ...

In less than a month when we in the official Primary season, the rules will relax a bit.

The problem is most criticism is usually nothing more than rank opinion with no substance.

[quickesst]

68. I find it rather extraordinary....

....that on a progressive Democratic forum there are so many people who are comfortable with posting things out of context. An omission here, a couple of quotation marks there......🤔

[marble falls]

71. It happens. And it usually gets pushback. We just need to keep up the good fight ...

there'll be plenty of time to quarrel after we win the election. Just so long as we don't keep rehashing the primary.

[Fiendish Thingy]

76. The TOS says nothing about criticism, that would be ludicrous

The TOS prohibits “bashing” of Democrats, which is not the same as honest criticism.

[Turin_C3PO]

9. I think in 2016 a lot of lefties

got booted for not supporting Hillary Clinton when she won the nomination. But the rules have always stated we must support the Dem candidate for President. I agree with that rule.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

10. and a lot were booted or left during the primary.

Recalling that DU was hacked and actually offline for the returns in November brings back excruciating memories. The stress is building from a place that was already stress filled. How will we cope?

I'm teetering because i joked that Biden was keeping his powder dry so that he could shoot himself in the foot. It was deleted. If we can't joke about a well known candidate's Achilles heel, how do we discuss reality? We don't. We dance around it. It's a dilemma.

[Turin_C3PO]

13. Yeah

I wouldn’t have voted to delete your post and I’m a Biden supporter. Sometimes the jurors are too sensitive. Maybe we should go back to having moderators.

[ripcord]

17. Juries don't really care about the forum rules anymore

Many are pushing personal agendas and feel nothing when it comes to stepping on other people's valid opinions.

[Mike 03]

40. Respectfully disagree.

I know that I take Jury service very seriously. I can always feel my heart rate go up when I do this. Sometimes I even go back and reread the rule and rethink what I'm doing, trying to make sure I'm making the right call. We don't see the authors of the posts or know any information about them. Jurors are allowed to read the posts above the post in question--again with no names or identifying information. Every once in a while after I'm finished I'll try to go locate the thread to better understand what was going on in that discussion and see whether or not a post actually got removed, just so I can see if I made a decision others agreed with. IMO the jury system is brilliant. I jokingly told my mother the inventors should patent it and sell it to other messageboards.

[True Blue American]

65. So do I.

This is why I would never be a MOD on other boards. I feel the system really works here. Avoiding the personal arguments helps.

[marble falls]

42. How does that work? I'm on juries daily and I think 80% we get it right. I do notice more ...

sexist/anti Islam/personal attack posts getting past jurys lately.

[KPN]

49. How do you know that? Is there a way to see results

of alerts that one served on jury for? Or alerts that one initiated?

[marble falls]

50. Things I've alerted on, things I juried on, what I hear from MIRT members.

[KPN]

54. But how do you know results? I've served on hundreds of juries and only occasionally do I know the

outcome; and then only because I saw the thread and recognized that the alerted post was either there or had been deleted.

[marble falls]

55. If the post is hidden or not. I go back and look, and I talk to people who jury ...

who go back and look.

[KPN]

59. Guess I don't look. Just do the jury bit and

continue back with what I was reading, doing. But I have often wondered. Thanks — this is such a dated thread I reall didn’t expect to hear back.

[marble falls]

63. I fell into it somehow. Every once in a while I'll post in a thread and see its three years old ...

after I post.

[marble falls]

51. I disagree. I take it very seriously and I go by the rules and the ToS we all sign when we ...

join. Making racist claims, for example, is a valid opinion however wrong you and I think it is, and it will not be allowed to stand.

We agree to support Democrats, negative opinions about any Democrat are valid opinions but they will not stand here. We sign that we will not do this.

Making nasty cracks about women, Muslims, gays etc may be honest opinions, but they just aren't allowed, and in my opinion should not be tolerated.

I get called to juries three and four times a day; partly because I spend a lot of time at DU, partly because there's a lot of alerts - it is primary season. I see some alerts sent up because someone merely disagrees with a responder and wants to shut him down, some are clearly reactions from someone who misunderstood the comment, some are clearly in violation of ToS.

Its pretty hard to rig the jurys, and with the new system I feel there is a lot less alert stalking. For example, if your alert falls with zero agreement, you can't alert for a day.

[marble falls]

61. Because that joke plays into RW meme Joe is a boob. I got a hide for posting about the ...

Trumpalooza failure without putting any emojis on it. Someone alerted and with the OP naked with no name on it got hidden. I protested it and the next day the hide was lifted.

My only problem with the new system is that sometimes I don't think we get to see enough context, jokes by themselves can look bad. I think I was on your jury. If I could have seen more of the thread I might have voted differently. Did you do a protest?

I think not putting names in the call to jury is a good idea - definitely makes alert stalking harder.

I'm glad you're still here.

[marble falls]

60. Slagging Hillary with RW talking points is not "not supporting Hillary" ...

for the record I supported Bernie until the convention. Then I supported Hillary, and I actually discovered she is eminently qualified to be POTUS.

A lot of those departed "leftists" got booted for continuing to slag Hillary after the convention, and couldn't stop reliving the Primary. Hillary is not why we have Trump. Not voting for Hillary is why.

I'm a leftie who stayed, just like you.

[Turin_C3PO]

70. Yes, sorry I wasn't clear.

I agree with you.

[marble falls]

72. And I was agreeing with you! I get too wordy.

[Wawannabe]

35. Agreed

I’ve been post removed a couple times recently. I have and will continue to stand my ground. Chips fall where they may!

I do feel lucky to have a place where I can actually discuss politics, read about politics, post about politics ...there’s nowhere else I can do that - nowhere.

[quickesst]

37. I ran across a few posters....

.... who were poison to this website, and it was time for them to scoot on down the road. What I don't like, and do not agree with is someone getting booted because someone's feelings were hurt. That happens with honest discussion sometimes, and I would like to see a little thicker skin around here. Other than that, I completely agree that it is nice to have a place where honest political discussion can take place.

[hunter]

11. I'm a radical leftist and environmental extremist.

I'm prejudiced against baby boomer white guys such as myself. In general, we fucked up big time.

But my politics are entirely practical and thoroughly Democratic.

I don't ever censor myself here on DU, but I see little value in primary forum warfare so I simply don't go there much.

"Trump" is on my trash-by-keyword list which makes DU much more tolerable.

The best thing anyone who is feeling burned out by politics can do is to turn off the fucking television.

My own television plays DVDs and Netflix. That's all it does. No bullshit television "news," no bullshit commercials.

When I get fed up with politics I walk away. I have a garden and a dog who chases tennis balls. I'm not chained to the internet.

If I'm really spoiling for a fight then I go full on Don Quixote in my continuing wars against XML, ECMAScript, and yes, the useless wind turbines covertly promoted by the filthy fracking natural gas industry.

Yes, all my posts are about ME! Everyone should try it. I hate it when people talk sideways about things, like they are trying not to offend some invisible guy in the room, be it Bernie Sanders, Jesus, or the mythical voter sitting on the fence.

See you around!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

12. turning off the news is probably a two-sided coin.

Can't look away. Ever since Donald showed up at Marble Collegiate Church one "Sinday" with Marla Maples, and Ivana was at home with the kids and clueless, we wondered why would he behave like this... At the same time he was demanding the death penalty for the CP5 who were ramrodded by the NYPD. He wants to be the earth's Strong Man (with Putin's support) as we belch our way into extinction.

This man has been an impossible to ignore presence in our lives for decades and he won't stop until he is dead and embalmed under glass a la Lenin.

[hunter]

14. Trump would be a nobody without television, and television "news" especially.

Fuck 'em both.

I read all my news and subscribe to multiple local, national, and international newspapers. (These are electronic subscriptions for all but our local papers.) Sometimes I watch videos on newspaper websites, mostly The Guardian it seems.

It's the nature of television news and opinion -- left, center, right, or completely out of the ballpark -- that it must appeal to the less rational aspects of the human mind. Otherwise very few people would watch it.

My wife and I quit traditional television more than a decade ago. No cable, no satellite, no broadcast. I feel better informed now than I was then.

I certainly feel less helpless. I think that's the whole point of television, to make people feel empty. People who feel empty are more likely to buy something -- be it a car, an expensive pharmaceutical of dubious effectiveness, or a rotten politician.

I know Trump is rotten. I don't have to be yelling at a television about it.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

15. glad to hear you are better informed. wish you were in the majority.

I have let several subscriptions lapse but check in all over. I make MSNBC homebase, in part because they are a check on Fox "News". And way too many people in our lives wont listen to NPR because they watch Fox "News".

Too true about the tv president. But I take the position that keeping up with his strategy is terribly important. The GOP has shred the rule book and have gone rogue. The media doesn't tell us that. So many people covering the news, yet they can't or won't follow up for fear of losing access.

The fact that we have countless newspapers and a tiny percent of the country reading is probanly why our debates so quickly go off the rails.

Issues we need to legislate are:

1) The news and fake news. Facts can't be debatable.

2) The Electoral College - Can't be a rubber stamp. Must follow procedure to prevent a con man and inveterate liar from being elected. Any rules like showing tax returns must be followed if you are to be POTUS.

How do we ever agree when there are think tanks controlling our rights as voters.

Liberal argument:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-electoral-college-was-meant-to-stop-men-like-trump-from-being-president/508310/

Conservative argument:
https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/preventing-the-tyranny-the-majority

And many more. Suggestions?

[JonLP24]

16. I think MSNBC has their own bias

It isn't necessarily liberal because they would have all voices on the left. People like Krystal Ball were let go and they have a history of not letting people back on that are too friendly to Bernie.

Link to tweet

I would like sober independent reporting not this ideological driven content and media shouldn't be biased toward either political party.

[sprinkleeninow]

34. Holy Scripture: The 'Strong Man' aka Satan, The Enemy, The Devil, The Evil One.

Treasury of Scripture
"No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."

American King James Version
"No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. It's gotten to the point that Dem candidates can trash other Dems

But we DUers can't criticize a Democrat, no matter how execrable they are, without fear of having our post deleted.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

19. I agree. our priorities seem backwards.

It is apparently an age old challenge for Democrats.

[CloudWatcher]

20. I left and came back.

Wasn't booted, but got fed up with the policies and took a few months off.

That said, I stay clear of the primary forums and don't do juries. I get too pissed too quickly.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

21. wise move.

I am avoiding those forums too. But sometimes I stumble into them reading the Homepage.

[CloudWatcher]

22. Home Page vs. Ignore List

Indeed. I reported a bug (many months ago) that your Ignore List is not honored for threads that make it onto the home page. Still not fixed.

It does work nicely for most forums or I'd have left again already

[Wawannabe]

46. I am here now trying to find info on why I can see someone on my ignore list

I think you just answered it. How did you report, please? Because I DO NOT want to see ANY posts from this one DUer. I only have one DUer on my ignore list but as I said above I DO NOT want to see that persons posts. At all.

[CloudWatcher]

47. It's been a long time ...

But I think I used 'Ask the Administrators' and sent them email.

No response from the admins. Ever. It's been years.

I might try again. I still see the person I have blocked when they make it to the front page (Trending Now).

[Wawannabe]

48. Same!

Wonder if it’s the same DUer. Would not surprise me. This person is vicious!

[marble falls]

62. I absolutely stay away from religion/athiest OPs and the primartes.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. It's just an Internet message board.

I've been here for a long time and most of the time I enjoy reading and posting, but I can choose to step away, or hide posts, or ignore posters who get on my nerves, or just keep doing what I do and not get all twisted out of shape. DU isn't my life, and I don't let myself get drawn into heated arguments with strangers - because it's just an Internet message board. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

25. I feel it is more than that.

I hope for a big tent and a healthy exchange of ideas. We get very precious and often intent is read into comments that wouldn't be if we were speaking.

[Kaleva]

24. As said by The Velveteen Ocelot above, this is just an internet message board

[Wawannabe]

36. Not a community?

[Kaleva]

38. I don't know the real names of anyone here

I know almost nothing of the vast majority of DUers and very little of a few DUers.

[beachbumbob]

26. many that we don;t know about

as their voices are silenced .No appeal process and why for years I avoided this forum as there really is no debate allowed

[JoeOtterbein]

27. Stay...

...we need you!

[zaj]

28. The rules are simple, support Democrats... Right?

This is a pro Democratic Party board.

If anyone (not you in particular) feel compelled to bash centrist or liberal or even conservative Democrats. You may run into a problem.

Has that been your experience?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

32. my recent experience was remarking on one candidate

Who tends to mangle statements to his/her detriment. I said something about keeping powder dry to shoot his/herself in the foot.

Bingo! Deleted. Hardly a news bulletin.

[zaj]

33. What was the notice you got?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

44. deleted my comment and a warning of some sort.

Can't remember now.

[Loki Liesmith]

43. Sounds deleteworthy

[SleeplessinSoCal]

45. if we can't joke about Joe's foot in mouth propensities,

then we've totally lost our sense of humor. And we are going to need that in spades.

[blm]

29. We DO see.

😶

[democratisphere]

31. Adopting ideas that are far or extreme left will not win elections.

Just ask Barack Obama!

[Mike 03]

39. I haven't been booted for politics, but I'm getting nervous about serving on Juries where the

rule in question is the one about disparaging Democrats, because it seems to me like that rule is broken so frequently and not enforced in many cases. So far I have always served and done my best, but sometimes the post I'm supposed to judge is a justified response to a post that is as bad or worse than the post in question. If it breaks the rules, I vote that it breaks the rules. But sometimes it feels kind of unfair because it's no worse than many other posts on the same thread. But the other rules are easier to make a determination.

[YOHABLO]

52. Hopefully the administrators are listening. Primaries are a tough period to get through.

Always check your resources before laying out an attack. Let's be honest, we rely on third party reporting that can be skewed one way or another, so nobody always gets it right.

[Doodley]

56. There's no perfect way to police forums.

We have to accept compromise because there are always those on any forum who want to troll and there has to be a system in place to deal with that. It isn't perfect and sometimes it sucks, but this forum is the best we have and it is the best online refuge from the insanity of Trump and GOP politics.

It is frustrating to get posts removed or to get flagged. But remember, there is always a way to voice a disagreement in a positive way that is unlikely to break rules. Make a criticism of a candidate into a positive suggestion, for example. You can make exactly the same points within the rules.

By leaving, you make yourself part of the "cull." I would rather you stay.

[Grasswire2]

64. Do not leave.

I don't think we dare speak honestly about what happened in 2016 because of the DU rule against re-litigating that election. Some are waiting to pounce.

It would be useful if we all could focus on beating Trump rather than tearing down other Dems. I have always said that I support the candidate who is polling best against Trump, no matter who it is. The infighting among the hopefuls is destructive.

Here's my thought. Ignore the attacks and the baiting. Just support your desired candidate and let the rest go unanswered. None of us here are going to affect the election materially by what we say, and so our arguments and fist fights are really futile.

Be cheerful and positive about your position. You are not alone. No need to argue back about anything.

[beachbumbob]

66. sad fact

it is what it is

[blm]

69. I do agree with much of this. I've been an anti-corruption Dem since

the 80s and still am. If I stated how over the last 4 decades some Democratic figures were lax in that regard, allowing the corruption in our economic system to go unexamined and unpunished, I’d be kicked out for naming them.

[Cheap_Trick]

73. I left in 2016

Thanks to the way the DNC and people here acted towards Bernie. And I can see shit hasn't changed. Frankly I don't give two shits if they tombstone me. The Democratic party is pretty much center-right neoliberals anymore anyway.

[StrictlyRockers]

74. This!

I feel the same way! I've been posting here regularly for 14 years!

I had 3 posts hidden yesterday! WTF? First time ever? Maybe one other in the past 14 years.

People would rather jerk off and hit block than debate honestly.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

75. don't think I can complain about the enforcers.

I don't want to be on a DU jury. I would get way too stressed. I just think some rules need to be loosened. That way apologies for over the top meltondowns can happen naturally as they should. Instead we get doubly angry.