Militias, last line of defense etc. and the civil war.

[Warren Stupidity]

One of the canons of Rkba absolutism is that gun rights are "the last defense against tyranny". The idea is that the good citizens can form citizen militias using their individual weapons to arm those militias, and with a bit of regulation in the form of marching, paint ball, beer, and plunking at targets, be ready to take on The Feds Gone Wild.

This is pretty much what happened in 1861. The results were the bloodiest war in our history by far, and the only time large areas of our nation were subject to the destructive forces of modern warfare, and this was just at the beginning of the industrial revolution, before the technology of warfare took several order of magnitude leaps on the way to Hiroshima.

The other interesting fact about the militia fueled uprising of 1861 was that it was not a "defense of liberty", unless one squints and ignores the fact that it was defense of a plantation economy that kept half the population of the region in slavery and benefited only a tiny fraction of the remaining "free" citizens. This uprising was profoundly reactionary.

The most likely scenario for a modern militia based uprising, and it ain't very likely, would once again be a defense of tyranny rather than freedom. The good news is that its duration would be measured in days not years.

[Electric Monk]

1. I hope you don't mind if I repost a few toons :)

[skinnytrees]

2. well

SCTOUS agrees that its part of what the 2nd is for

Heller:

"The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved."

[Bjorn Against]

3. Yes Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Kennedy and Alito agree with a lot of things that are completely wrong.

[ellisonz]

5. ^^^^^^

Blocked

[BainsBane]

8. spring cleaning

It's good to clear out the sock drawer every once in a while.

[Progressive dog]

9. Yup, the anti federalists wrote the Constitution

at least according to the right wingers on the court.

[jmg257]

10. That's nice. But WE THE PEOPLE decided

a long time ago that the 'citizen militia' was NOT the best security of a free state. WE decided that a select national militia, one well-regulated by federal control, funding AND FEDERAL arming, & serving to support a huge standing army and a kick-ass navy, was a much better way to secure our liberties.

THIS ideal made the people's role in the traditional organized militias obsolete, along with their duty to bear arms. Any other individual right secured by the 2nd {if one exists} is for your personal enjoyment, and clearly open to regulations due to a government interest.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. There are so many things wrong with that line of "reasoning", it's hard to know where to start.

It always seems to boil down to needing the guns to stop the government from coming to take the guns.

But the government will always have a bigger gun.

It's silly. It's 12 yr. old logic.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/62yearold-with-gun-only-one-standing-between-natio,30984/

[defacto7]

6. But that is exactly what it is... 12 yr. old logic.

Try 6 yr. old logic.

If your entire worth and intellect is saturated with magical thinking, there is a point where you become invincible because the end does not end here with your last stand and the end of your existence. There is the greater beyond that you think you are a part of, a cog of a great machine that is bigger and grander. Therefore, you cannot really be harmed. You go on, your belief system carries you to ... wherever... and you go down in American history as a martyr, a saint, a patriot.

That is the sociopathic problem. There is no logic. Don't expect any.

edit: to add.... Case and point... GWB says to his critics concerning Iraq etc., "History will exonerate me."

Bye, bye, responsibility, and he sleeps so soundly at night.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Let's put it this way: I know a few people who are, er, Alex Jones "fans".

Trying to have a rational conversation with them, particularly after Newtown.... There's just no fucking point.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. Indeed the scenario most of the nut jobs depict as the tyranny they would need

to stand up and get blown into mist for is the gummint comming for their gunz. There seems to be a much simpler way to avoid that tragedy.

[jimmy the one]

12. the many & the proud

ws: The most likely scenario for a modern militia based uprising, and it ain't very likely, would once again be a defense of tyranny rather than freedom. The good news is that its duration would be measured in days not years.

Probably as soon as the pizza & beer ran out.
Suddenly the big bad govt wouldn't look as bad as the big bad cold weather & sleeping in tents in the mountains, with no cable tv, no snooze alarms, no electric blankets. As well as being scared sh**less as jets zoom in & out overhead and tanks rumble below (if it got that far).
... y' y' y' m'm'mean we're gonna attack the capitol? w'w'w'with our guns???? (followup report read: "desertions ran high in the citizen's resistance".)

I wonder who would take charge of the unorganized militia after it activated? my bet is Ted Nugent, CiC of the UM. 'Use Drugs & Alcohol Wisely'.

The MANY, The PROUD, the UNORGANIZED.

[CreekDog]

13. based on the demographics involved, it's far more likely the arms would be used against minorities

and against government attempts to protect minority rights.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. that is why I noted that, as in 1861, "defense of tyranny" is the likely scenario.

[CreekDog]

15. right, and that was a spot on observation