Democrats: Stop Running to the Center - Robert Reich

[Rhiannon12866]

Dear Democrats,

Do not move to the center!

Sincerely,

Someone who has watched you do this after every election loss the past 50 years.

[stopdiggin]

1. because the last election showed us how the country

(and voters) are moving steadily left ? Seriously ?

That's what you saw ... ?

[Rhiannon12866]

2. That's what Robert Reich saw and he's been following elections a lot longer than I have

[Polybius]

25. There's no such thing as a political expert

They all make mistakes, and all get their predictions wrong quite often.

[Nanjeanne]

19. No the last election showed us that chasing the illusive Republican who will vote Democratic

is not a winning strategy. But giving discouraged and disillusioned voters to get out and vote FOR something might be a more winning strategy.

[stopdiggin]

21. ah, yes. "what the Ds lack is solid 'messaging' "

Sorry. What I saw in the last election - for whatever inexplicable reasons - was a voting public that was more accepting and moved by the 'message' from a braying jackass running as a reality TV star - than an appeal to reproductive freedom, economic justice, public health, and plain old competency in government.

Simple fact is - there were more votes for the braying jackass than there were in our column in 2024. And in fact the Ds got less votes - both in raw numbers and in percentages - than they did in 2020. Moreover Harris running to the 'left' or to the 'center' wasn't going to improve that score by any yardstick. And frankly - it has always been my impression that you do win elections ... By encouraging more people to vote for you, than for the other guy.

You may have seen things differently. But a shift to the 'left' certainly wasn't going to pull this one out of the fire. Not even close. And (IMO) there a strong chance it could/would have been worse.

[CTyankee]

23. It was a "disjointed" message. My heart sank when I saw what happened to Biden during the debate. That long pause, Biden

just blanking out, was the beginning of the end. Harris tried valiantly but it all came too late. I couldn't believe it, as we watched the returns come in on election night. It took me a couple of weeks to come out of my deep funk of despair. I was SO CERTAIN that we had just elected our first woman president!

[questionseverything]

28. You argue as passionately against a left shift as

You argue against hand counting votes

[stopdiggin]

29. Darn straight. Unapologetically. And with some conviction.

(thing is, just like 95% of the people on this board - I personally would vote for a progressive agenda, more or less every time it was on offer. The overwhelming problem there - is that the voting public is delivering results - that say that their interest, or at least priorities - lie in different directions. And they are voting such - that there is very little likelihood of me every getting a chance to mark and X for Medicare for All. That is the dilemma. And that can only be addressed - by winning elections.)

[questionseverything]

30. If we really want to win elections, we should be able to verify the count

Compared to the hell , we Americans are going through, hand counting paper ballots doesn’t seem like much to ask

Trusting the owners of the vote counting computers is foolish

[stopdiggin]

31. My objection to 'hand counting' lies in that it is a bogus nostrum

Proposed to 'fix' problems that largely don't exist. (the old 'solution in search of a problem' gambit)

2) it is largely the creature and creation of the obstructionist 'muck up the works' 'can't trust the government' right - whose ultimate agenda is something quite, quite different from peaceful, orderly and fair elections

and 3) that 'hand counting' has been demonstrated over and over to be less accurate and reliable (not to mention hugely time consuming and costly for added bonus) than the methods and practices that are already in place today.

In short - (IMO) it has little or nothing to recommend itself.

[questionseverything]

32. It's transparent which should beat everything in a democracy

And your 3 points are subject to debate

[stopdiggin]

33. have to be joking

If you don't think 'citizen Joe' can monkey wrench the hell out out of so called 'transparent process' - with cries of "Foul", 'Obstruction" and "Cheating" (along with other measures like lawsuits, etc.) - you haven't been paying any attention at all.

All you're doing is adding more people - to aid in spoiling the broth.

[Be Leave On]

3. Overton window

"Moving to the center" shifts the Overton window away from ordinary people and toward the oligarchs and techno-feudalism.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. Thanks so much! And I tend to believe Robert Reich

[Nulock]

5. A blunt opinion

The Democratic Party didn't lose because of being too left on economic issues. (Labor, healthcare, social security, jobs, housing, etc. ) No way they need to move to the center on that. The Democratic Party lost because they pushed the envelope too far on identity politics, immigration, climate, going green, and authoritarian mandates on several issues. Nobody has to like that assessment but that's the reality on the ground. Anybody who doesn't get that is in deep denial. The right-wing talking heads then use all that to claim the Democratic Party needs to move to the center-right on economic issues that the majority would be fine moving to the left on.

[Rhiannon12866]

6. Thanks for your thoughtful response

And welcome to DU! We're glad to have you with us!

[Nulock]

7. Thank you.

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2025, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't necessarily agree with not trying to push the envelope on some of those things by the way. Just the reality. We're pretty damn reactionary as a country. You can't shove a square peg in a round hole though and in the end the Democratic Party and the left (whatever that constitutes in the US these days) ends up with nothing on any front.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. I agree with you and what's happening now absolutely baffles me

I've always voted, mostly for Democrats, though in my part of New York we frequently have local offices where Republicans run opposed. But the Republican party, home of "conservatives" and Ronald Reagan has totally disappeared and has been completely replaced by a failed "businessman" who only ran for office in the hope of grifting campaign donations. And he has turned the office, and those in office who support him, into a one-man effort to gain power and make as much money as possible. The American people, which government was created to protect, are now unfortunately on their own. And those who support him either hope to benefit from the grifting or are completely deluded in a way I truly cannot understand. And after being convicted of 34 felonies, inciting an insurrection that should have permanently prevented him from ever running for public office according to the Constitution, and his theft of classified documents jeopardized our national security, places this country in more danger than we've experienced in 249 years - and fear for our future.

[markodochartaigh]

12. Although I detest Reagan,

I think that the real difference is that every other president was committed to democracy (even Bush the Second let his legal hacks at the supremacist court do his dirty work while he played rancher. And, for all his faults, he refused to endorse Strong Leader Trump).

Trump is the only president who refused to commit to democracy. This is my personal litmus test, anyone who supported Trump after he refused to commit to democracy is not anyone with whom I want to associate.

[Rhiannon12866]

14. I was certainly no fan of Reagan, either, though his "beliefs" were the complete opposite of TFG's

He supported immigration, which populated the United States, he was exceedingly tough on Russia "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!, and along with the two other living former presidents - Carter and Ford - he supported President Clinton's 1994 Assault Weapons Ban which helped get it passed. My president was Carter and I hold Reagan's campaign methods against him which led to Carter's defeat, but, as you said, TFG is the only president who refuses to support democracy, on which this country was founded, and I'd support Reagan or any other former president (at least in my lifetime), over TFG who has no regard for democracy, this country, or the people any president is elected to support.

[Nulock]

13. Trump's essentially a crime boss and the Republican Party has become his crime family.

Nobody survived in Atlantic City in the 80's without deep connections to the mob and organized crime. Trump might not be a "made man" in the traditional Mafia sense but he's a gangster and a thug. None of it is about "Nazi's and Fascists." It's about money and power. Putin is also a thug and a gangster who runs a gangster state. Not communist, not fascist, not anything else. His ties and control over the Russian mob are no secret. These are mob bosses running countries to consolidate power and wealth. There's no political ideology involved. That's just a cover for the grand theft and grift on a global scale. The stink of death and destruction in their path doesn't even enter their nostrils.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910/

[Rhiannon12866]

15. Wow! I completely take your point and certainly agree

And today on the news I heard that there was some sort of skirmish whether a president is legally justified in killing his political enemies! WTF?! Yup, he's a crime boss... And threatens anyone who opposes him, which is how he demands "loyalty."

[Nulock]

16. He has the entire political apparatus of the state at his disposal and command.

Not a good situation at all as it's filled with his most ardent loyalists and enforcers. I wouldn't discount that they're capable of anything as you say.

[Rhiannon12866]

17. And the fact that he has these ardent "loyalists" makes no sense to me

He'll jettison anyone in a minute if they dare to disagree or just can't take it anymore - look at Michael Cohen! He actually broke the law for him, only to be thrown under the bus and intentionally sent back to prison! And yet TFG has yet to pay for much more serious crimes...

[stopdiggin]

11. I'll buy in to that - in general terms, if not every specific ...

(authoritarian mandate .. ?)
But, still - frankly probably a better explanation than either I, or the OP, put forward for a real yardstick on this past election !

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[DeepWinter]

22. Completely agree

The majority of Democrats are moderates and establishment. They like the more liberal/Progressive bullet points, but we're not trying to win them over. They've already part of the team.

We're trying to win over voters who are even more moderate. Left of center, but casually so. And not nearly as politically invested as the average DUer is. And something I've heard a thousand times over from these people is they could really care less about LGBTQ issues, zero interest. We need to understand they're not against it, it's just not a meaningful part of their life and when it comes up they turn off. Talk Geo-politics, talk education, talk economy, talk income disparity, talk enviroment and they're on board. Drift into the social identity/LGBTQ and eyes glaze over. You don't have to like that, just understand it's real and it's a tripping point. We lose a lot of voters lecturing and scolding them on identity politics if they're not 100% on board. Still good people, it's just not at all their issue.

[Nulock]

24. Pretty good article from a DU member posted here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016398515

The SPD's dramatic defeat raises major questions for progressive politics in Germany


The dynamics in the US are similar. It's tragic that the right-wing is filling the void where the left should be. When the right-wing is lying their ass off and still winning you know you have a major problem with the focus of your political platform. A lot of the left wants to keep doubling down expecting a different result. They won't get it. You have a wider net if the centerpiece of your political program is economic class issues.

[Uncle Joe]

8. That was cosmic, I just made a post on another thread that aligned with Robert's message before I saw this video

Thanks for the thread Rhiannon

[Rhiannon12866]

10. Awww, thanks, Uncle Joe!

I'll have to find and read it, though I've had lots of practice at that.

[somsai]

18. We didn't lose from running to the center

The public is left of us on many issues of labor. Health care, wages, retirement, taxes, all issues we could move left on and gain public support.

We lost the support of the working class on immigration which is an economic issue, and because on cultural issues we got Shanghaied by fringe "groups".

We've become the small tent party. Kicking people out rather than welcoming all who vote Democratic. Here on this web site apparently also.

[Think. Again.]

26. Well said.

[cadoman]

34. or perhaps the party of many small tents who can't come together when it matters?

There's certainly an abundance of anti-Trump energy out there but it was a struggle to get everyone committed to voting against him.

You'd think being anti-Trump would be enough, as it's obviously the #1 thing on many people's list, but when it came down to it, each of the little tents found some reason to stay home.

The pro-Palestine tent thinks Biden caused them to lose their territory.

The pro-Israel tent didn't think Biden committed enough to protect them from anti-Semitism and Oct 7.

The working class tent is always resistant to immigration (even refugees) because it hits their economic prospects most. Our successes on the border never got through the misinformation.

Even the big-business tent was somewhat available for the taking (due to MAGAT tariff chaos) but may have stayed home due to tax concerns.

The Hispanic/LatinX tent didn't show up because frankly it turned out to be a lot more racist and misogynistic than I ever would have guessed.

The long COVID and COVID cautious communities felt let down when things went back to "normal".

The Black and LGBTQ2SIA+ tents generally showed up--kudos to them.

The health care tent is definitely available for the taking. I think what we offered to folks with healthcare concerns wasn't specific enough.

----

All those tents could have been reached to some degree with surgical strike policy pivots. Each tent needed to be given one damn good "centrist" reason to show up. That's how you get the fence-sitters out to vote.

But instead we ran to the center by running to...Liz Cheney? Democrats aren't excited about her, but even worse: neither are independents or conservatives. I can guarantee Liz Cheney won us zero votes. What is the point in parading her around, making everyone uncomfortable?? The neocon journalists (Kristol, Frum, etc.) were more effective by appealing to the reason of their followers in a low-key manner.

[NowsTheTime]

20. Stop compromising. We need to get Enthusiastic & get our own movement going! Maga gives us lots of ammunition.

Same message as Bernie.

Remember we almost won the election.

Get people enthused and maybe we will win.

[Think. Again.]

27. I can't rec this post enough.

It's been clear for decades that the general public overwhelming sides with the left on issues across the board.

I personally believe the whole "Third Way" pull to the "center" and "moderate Democrat" movement is all just another rightwing tactic to weaken the Democratic Parties appeal to the public.

[Emile]

35. K & R. We have a centrist problem.

[jalan48]

36. We've been moving right ever since Reagan. Trump is the logical outcome of our strategy.

[Intractable]

38. This is what centrism sounds like ...

[Emile]

39. Chuck Schumer needs to take notes and learn.

[Passages]

40. Since Carter, and then Clinton, Obama.

Neoliberalism:

How Neoliberalism Failed, and What a Better Society Could Look Like
August 7, 2024

By Joseph Stiglitz
The following is adapted from a speech given at a New School conference, “Beyond Neoliberalism and Neo-Illiberalism: Economic Policies and Performance for Sustainable Democracy,” on March 27, 2023.
https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/how-neoliberalism-failed/

The Biden administration brought a break in the right direction. My hero was Lina Khan, and the anti-trust division. Then one of the alleged "good" billionaires told Harris to fire her on national television during the campaign.


Unseat yourself from these types, and be free to fight for the best policies already popular across parties and independents.