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usaf-vet

(7,419 posts)
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 06:14 PM Mar 21

Trump and his threats to Canada. First, let's look at NATO countries and then Article 5.

Contrary to the delusional person sitting in the Oval Office. The USA-Canadian border is NOT JUST A LINE DRAWN WITH A RULER.

Canada is a NATO country. It was one of the founding members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) when it was established on April 4, 1949.

Current NATO Members (as of March 2025):
There are 32 member countries in NATO:
Founding Members (1949):

Belgium
Canada
Denmark
France
Iceland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
United Kingdom
United States


Now let's look at NATO Article 5, and its meanings
Purpose of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization):

NATO is a military alliance formed in 1949 to promote:
Collective defense: If one member is attacked, it's considered an attack against all (Article 5).
Peace and security: Particularly in the North Atlantic area.
Democratic values: Promoting cooperation on defense and security to deter conflict.
Crisis management and deterrence against aggressors (originally aimed at countering Soviet expansion during the Cold War).

Key Principle – Article 5:
Invoked only once in NATO's history—after the 9/11 attacks on the United States in 2001.



A likely International scenario that would occur!
If a U.S. President Attempted to Overtake Canada:
This would be extremely serious and unprecedented, and here's what would likely happen:
1. Violation of International Law:
Such an action would violate the United Nations Charter, NATO’s founding treaty, and countless international agreements.
It would be viewed as an act of war and aggression.

2. NATO Crisis – Potential Article 5 Triggered:
Canada, as a NATO member, could invoke Article 5.
Ironically, other NATO members (including European allies) would be obligated to defend Canada—against the U.S.
This would fracture or collapse the alliance unless swift diplomatic action was taken.

3. Internal U.S. Resistance:
The U.S. military, Congress, judiciary, and public would almost certainly oppose such a move.
The military takes an oath to the Constitution, not to a president personally.
High-ranking military officials would likely refuse illegal orders.
The 25th Amendment (removal of a president unfit for office) might be invoked.

4. Global Sanctions and Isolation:
The U.S. would face immediate international backlash, including:
Sanctions
Trade embargoes
Diplomatic isolation
Possibly even expulsion from NATO (though no formal process currently exists for that)

5. Collapse of U.S. Leadership on the World Stage:
It would mark the end of U.S. global credibility.
Other alliances (like the UN, Five Eyes, G7) would be thrown into chaos.


NATO has 32 members here are those members that joined after the original 12 founding members
Greece (1952)
Türkiye (1952)
Germany (1955)
Spain (1982)
Czech Republic (1999)
Hungary (1999)
Poland (1999)
Bulgaria (2004)
Estonia (2004)
Latvia (2004)
Lithuania (2004)
Romania (2004)
Slovakia (2004)
Slovenia (2004)
Albania (2009)
Croatia (2009)
Montenegro (2017)
North Macedonia (2020)
Finland (2023)
Sweden (2024)
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump and his threats to Canada. First, let's look at NATO countries and then Article 5. (Original Post) usaf-vet Mar 21 OP
He won't take Canada militarily, he will do a Putin and attempt to doc03 Mar 21 #1
The protection for military members who refuse to obey an unlawful order is found under Article 92 of the UCMJ. usaf-vet Mar 21 #2
Nobel Peace Prize for trump? thought crime Mar 22 #3
If Trump wanted to invade Canada... Old Testament Libera Mar 22 #4
Exactly! usaf-vet Mar 22 #5
You can't fake military competence.... ultralite001 Mar 24 #7
Thank You For This Well-Researched Information (n/t) wyn borkins Mar 23 #6

doc03

(37,647 posts)
1. He won't take Canada militarily, he will do a Putin and attempt to
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 06:22 PM
Mar 21

destabilize the Canadian government to attempt to put in a puppet government.

usaf-vet

(7,419 posts)
2. The protection for military members who refuse to obey an unlawful order is found under Article 92 of the UCMJ.
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 06:23 PM
Mar 21
Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) protects military members who refuse to obey an unlawful order.

UCMJ Article 92 – Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation
Article 92 requires service members to obey lawful orders.
It explicitly does not require obedience to unlawful orders.
Refusal to follow an unlawful order is not a violation of Article 92.

Legal Foundation
U.S. military law recognizes that “I was just following orders” is not a defense for committing an illegal act.
This principle was established clearly after World War II, particularly during the Nuremberg Trials.
The U.S. Department of Defense Law of War Manual reinforces that military personnel have a duty to disobey manifestly unlawful orders.

Examples of Unlawful Orders
Orders to kill civilians
Orders to torture prisoners
Orders that violate the Constitution or international law

Bottom Line
A military member is legally protected when refusing to obey an unlawful order. The burden is on the individual to recognize that the order is clearly illegal—this is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for disobedience, but a serious responsibility.

thought crime

(72 posts)
3. Nobel Peace Prize for trump?
Sat Mar 22, 2025, 02:09 AM
Mar 22

What is hilarious in a sick way is that Trump fully expects to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his effort to force Ukraine to surrender to Putin, while at the same time threatening Canada and Greenland.

4. If Trump wanted to invade Canada...
Sat Mar 22, 2025, 02:22 AM
Mar 22

...and Greenland, and Panama, he would need to stop purging the officer corps. Morale and professionalism in the military are all-important. You can't fake military competence.

You can, however, fake business and political skills - which Trump and Musk do every day. So they probably think that their loyalists can fake military leadership.

NATO, by the way, is a treaty ratified by Congress in 1949. A treaty takes precedence over all other law, federal and state. If Trump violates it by invading Canada, or any NATO member (includes Denmark, which administers Greenland) then this is an impeachable offense.

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