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In reply to the discussion: The 22nd Amendment [View all]

LetMyPeopleVote

(160,817 posts)
39. Tamping down the third term hype for Trump (good legal analysis as to why trump cannot run for third term)
Mon Mar 31, 2025, 11:42 AM
Monday

Believe or not, this issue was discussed a while back when there were discussions about Bill Clinton running as vice-president on a Gore-Clinton ticket. The thought was that Gore would resign after the election and President Clinton could serve a third term. This concept was discussed and rejected.

The three ways that trump could run for a third term (i) a constitutional amendment, (ii) trump running as vice president and then have his running mate resign and (iii) trump becoming speaker of the house and then the POTUS and Vice President resigning.

A constitutional amendment is not likely. https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3380306 It is unlikely that such an amendment could get through congress much less be ratified by the required number of states.

The third option has so many variables that it is also unlikely. trump would have to be appointed/elected as Speaker and then both the POTUS and the VP resign. This option does not have the 12th Amendment issue but has so many variables that it is unlikely

The 12th Amendment is clear that no one can run as VP if they are not eligible to run as POTUS. I agree with the legal analysis set forth below.

https://bsky.app/profile/derektmuller.bsky.social/post/3llmjzwnvdc2l



https://electionlawblog.org/?p=149214
As I told the Associated Press:

Derek Muller, a professor of election law at Notre Dame, noted that the 12th Amendment, which was ratified in 1804, says “no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”

Muller said that indicates that if Trump is not eligible to run for president again because of the 22nd Amendment, he is not eligible to run for vice president, either.

“I don’t think there’s any ‘one weird trick’ to getting around presidential term limits,” Muller said.

In addition, pursuing a third term would require extraordinary acquiescence by federal and state officials, not to mention the courts and voters themselves.

He suggested that Trump is talking about a third term for political reasons to “show as much strength as possible.”


Now, there’s no question there is potential constitutional ambiguity here, as Professor Brian Kalt has discussed. But scholars like Professor Michael Dorf a quarter century ago were bolstering the idea of a Gore-Clinton ticket in 2000:

Thus, if Clinton were to be elected Vice President, and ascend to the Presidency based on, for example, Mr. Gore’s resignation, then nothing unconstitutional would have occurred. Clinton would have been elected to the Presidency only twice — though he would serve as President thrice. Under the Twenty-Second Amendment, that is perfectly permissible.

. . . But in seeking the Vice-Presidency — a job, in John Nance Garner’s unforgettable phrase, “not worth a bucket of warm spit” — Clinton would hardly be bidding for dictatorial powers.


Similar claims were made by Professor Brian Gray and elsewhere. But in my earlier scholarship, I found this interpretation weaker than the one advanced by Matthew Franck:

It follows from the 22nd Amendment that Bill Clinton, being “constitutionally ineligible” to be elected president, is ineligible to become president by another route. He is, in short, ineligible to be president, and therefore ineligible to become vice president under the 12th amendment.


I agree. But it’s worth noting that if–and I think it’s still a big if–such a gambit arose, there are tremendous complexities in its implementation. Not the least of which is the fact that after Trump v. Anderson, I believe the Court expressly left open the opportunity for states to review qualifications of presidential (and vice-presidential) candidates outside of the 14th Amendment and exclude candidates on that basis. Vice presidential nominations and ballot access deadlines for them occur in late summer, giving an exceedingly truncated window for review–and, frankly, one that may leave a major party without a vice presidential candidate on the ballot in several states with the approval of the United States Supreme Court. (Setting aside, of course, the will power of someone like J.D. Vance relinquishing the presidency.)

I really enjoy Professor Hasen's election law blog. This article made me smile.

Finally, I doubt that trump will live long enough for these options to be necessary.

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The 22nd Amendment [View all] Chasstev365 Monday OP
He doesn't understand, because he gets away with violating the constitution every day.he thinks, why should he stop now? Walleye Monday #1
NPR: Trump is 'not joking' about third term. Towlie Monday #41
Yet, his fellow Republicans pretend he's not maniacally delusional Walleye Monday #42
he is behaving like he KNOWS he would "win" Skittles Monday #51
This is done to keep us angry Tickle Monday #2
Bingo! It's a distraction from what they're really doing... SKKY Monday #10
Yep-- and so is the notion of adding his ugly mug to Mt. Rushmore. nt allegorical oracle Monday #18
Jesus H Christ Tickle Monday #19
I don't believe this is solely to play the libs. Lonestarblue Monday #22
Trump may say or imply that it's a third term, but his intentions are greater than that. elocs Monday #38
Wrong imo Meowmee Monday #55
The only exception to this rule was Gerald Ford after the 22nd Amendment was ratified in 1951. ProudMNDemocrat Monday #3
And remember how Ford got there BumRushDaShow Monday #20
Ford was no exception and would not have been eligible for a third term under the 22nd whopis01 Monday #25
Need the 12th Amendment, too William Seger Monday #4
They will argue (and I've actually heard this) Happy Hoosier Monday #49
That's the 22nd Amendment "loophole" I mentioned William Seger Monday #50
It's hard for the media to ask him that, GoCubsGo Monday #5
One theory I've heard floated: Shipwack Monday #6
We deserve a do-over on impeaching the MFer William Seger Monday #24
"So explain to us exactly how and why you would eligiblable to run for a third term?" J_William_Ryan Monday #7
And another question kkmarie Monday #36
He'll Just Abolish It loquacious Monday #8
Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote Monday #43
Right, because it's just that easy. And Texas and Alaska are leaving the Union, too. marble falls Monday #45
he also seems mighty certain he would "win" Skittles Tuesday #57
Yikes. I just thought of a third reason Rump could & would use: "I was never elected president! I STOLE both elections! LaMouffette Monday #9
He has floated getting rid of term limits before. Hornedfrog2000 Monday #11
Anyone can become President without being elected Shrek Monday #12
Completely wrong. The 12th amendment prohibits it. Wiz Imp Monday #31
Nope Shrek Monday #44
Here's the problem: Bettie Monday #13
Right. So why would he ignore the constitution just to go through another election? Wiz Imp Monday #33
I think he likes the illusion of Bettie Monday #35
He WAS asked that Bernardo de La Paz Monday #14
He could be appointed speaker of the house radical noodle Monday #29
To make yourself feel better... WOLFMAN87 Monday #15
That last is the tricky part for him birdographer Monday #27
Keeping the grift going. al_liberal Monday #16
Goes hand in hand with the 12th. BlueTsunami2018 Monday #17
Laws literally do not matter. Hornedfrog2000 Monday #21
geez melm00se Monday #23
Easy to do. Vance wins as president with donnie as his running mate then donnie makes Wonder Why Monday #26
Goes against the 22nd AND the 12th amendments. Wiz Imp Monday #34
He's trolling. 4th Monday #28
he dosnt care. AllaN01Bear Monday #30
Doubt his nefarious goals Wavelight Monday #32
By having GOP control the courts and congress of course IronLionZion Monday #37
Tamping down the third term hype for Trump (good legal analysis as to why trump cannot run for third term) LetMyPeopleVote Monday #39
When you own and have the US supreme court in your ocpket republianmushroom Monday #40
His rationalization, from what I've heard, is: run as VP and have the POTUS resign after he's ... marble falls Monday #46
Hopefully he'll be dead so we don't have to endure another coup attempt by him GoodRaisin Monday #47
I don't want to speculate on the length of anyone's string. IF I were a betting man, I'd bet ... marble falls Monday #48
'Because I say so.' Norrrm Monday #52
Exactly! Chasstev365 Monday #56
If the Supreme Court allows him to do it, then we're done for! n/t AntiFascist Monday #53
The media for the most part is largely responsible Meowmee Monday #54
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