Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

AloeVera

(3,591 posts)
22. You didn't read the article too closely, or something.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 06:34 PM
Jul 20

He makes it clear there is a rift between genocide scholars and Holocaust scholars. The latter are the Gaza Genocide denialists, which I find ironic and sad.

Those engaged in the worldwide culture of commemoration and remembrance built around the Holocaust will have to confront a moral reckoning. The wider community of genocide scholars — those engaged in the study of comparative genocide or of any one of the many other genocides that have marred human history — is now edging ever closer toward a consensus over describing events in Gaza as a genocide.

In November, a little more than a year into the war, the Israeli genocide scholar Shmuel Lederman joined the growing chorus of opinion that Israel was engaged in genocidal actions. The Canadian international lawyer William Schabas came to the same conclusion last year and has recently described Israel’s military campaign in Gaza as “absolutely” a genocide.

Other genocide experts, such as Melanie O’Brien, president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, and the British specialist Martin Shaw (who has also said that the Hamas attack was genocidal), have reached the same conclusion, while the Australian scholar A. Dirk Moses of the City University of New York described these events in the Dutch publication NRC as a “mix of genocidal and military logic.” In the same article, Uğur Ümit Üngör, a professor at the Amsterdam-based NIOD Institute for War, Holocaust and Genocide Studies, said there are probably scholars who still do not think it’s genocide, but “I don’t know them.”


He also says this about the denial:

To this day, only a few scholars of the Holocaust — and no institutions dedicated to researching and commemorating it — have issued warnings that Israel could be accused of carrying out war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing or genocide. This silence has made a mockery of the slogan “Never again,” transforming its meaning from an assertion of resistance to inhumanity wherever it is perpetrated to an excuse, an apology, indeed, even a carte blanche for destroying others by invoking one’s own past victimhood.

This is another of the many incalculable costs of the current catastrophe. As Israel is literally trying to wipe out Palestinian existence in Gaza and is exercising increasing violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, the moral and historical credit that the Jewish state has drawn on until now is running out.


Israel and the denialists - of all stripes - would do well to heed this warning.

Recommendations

4 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K & R Celerity Jul 17 #1
"The Holy Land" Skittles Jul 17 #2
The author is not wrong irisblue Jul 17 #3
I am not a genocide scholar but I know genocide malaise Jul 17 #4
K & R democrank Jul 17 #5
I haven't seen any... druidity33 Jul 17 #6
And you will see even fewer of them. I found it utterly useless to counter opinions with facts. Beastly Boy Jul 17 #11
Nah. When neither facts nor morality are on your side, I'd be quiet too. AloeVera Jul 20 #24
Facts are on my side allright. I keep citing them again and again. Beastly Boy Jul 20 #29
With facts such as the ADL got canceled its a wonder anyone can even think of debating you. Eko Jul 20 #31
Ten minutes later, and your post didn't age well, did it? Beastly Boy Jul 20 #32
Mine aged very well. Eko Jul 20 #34
I see you are a big fan of rapid aging. Beastly Boy Jul 20 #35
I can tell you that I am not a fan of using right wing slogans. Eko Jul 21 #36
It's not genocide. nt LexVegas Jul 17 #13
You've convinced me with that compelling argument!! Violet_Crumble Jul 24 #43
Some of those same people are saying ethnic cleansing isn't taking place, either Rob H. Jul 17 #18
It's an academic argument... druidity33 Jul 17 #19
You are exactly right! Violet_Crumble Jul 24 #44
K&R spanone Jul 17 #7
The author admits that he is offering an opinion that is contrary to most other sources Beastly Boy Jul 17 #8
Why let that get in the way of the "concern"? nt LexVegas Jul 17 #9
Haaretz has some facts too BeyondGeography Jul 17 #12
And these facts are consistent with urban warfare involving human shields, not genocide. Beastly Boy Jul 17 #14
Haaretz has reported extensively on the IDF's use of Palestinians as human shields BeyondGeography Jul 17 #16
And your point is... what? Beastly Boy Jul 17 #17
You didn't read the article too closely, or something. AloeVera Jul 20 #22
Ah, thanks for bringing these passages to my attention. Beastly Boy Jul 21 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Dayenu Jul 23 #41
Why would you say that? Is it the volume of links? Violet_Crumble Jul 24 #42
Gee, who should I listen to? A genocide expert or an "emotional healing" blogger? AloeVera Jul 20 #23
Gaza 2035: A Beacon of Peace and Prosperity in the Flourishing Middle East by Seth Eisenberg - cliffside Jul 20 #25
Unbelievable. AloeVera Jul 20 #28
Spinmeister sounds right to me! "Donald Tump Square" :( nt cliffside Jul 20 #30
Between the two, the 'emotional healing" blogger appears to be more trustworthy and objective. Beastly Boy Jul 21 #38
Domicide should be listed as a war crime too when it's this widespread uponit7771 Jul 17 #10
Especially when it's domicide in aid of ethnic cleansing. AloeVera Jul 20 #21
Omer Bartov is an incredible man and scholar I have been reading and listening to for years. His book, Nanjeanne Jul 17 #15
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Jul 17 #20
Bookmarked underpants Jul 20 #26
Thanks for sharing the full article! Below is an interview from 7/17 ... cliffside Jul 20 #27
Netanyahu - Trump - Putin - it's all connnected. Initech Jul 20 #33
Genocides have a long history. The roots always seem to be based in nationalism religion, and fear. Ping Tung Jul 21 #39
Kick LymphocyteLover Jul 23 #40
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I'm a Genocide Scholar. I...»Reply #22