General Discussion

mr715

(4,883 posts)

163. It is conceivable to me...

Wed Jun 17, 2026, 05:49 PM

Jun 17

that the outcome of 2024 could have been worse. Now, I want to be clear -- it was and is pretty bleak. In a different universe where Kamala Harris really fumbles it, we could've lost more house seats and some senate seats.

I'll freely admit that the outcome of 2024 is about the worst case scenario.

As for suffering worse, it is impossible to prove that so I'm not really attempting to make an argument, just add a perspective.

To recall my point from before, there is what happened in 2024 which was very much an institutional collapse of our party, but that left us with enough hard power in Congress to be somewhat resistant. I am of the opinion that had Biden remained on the ballot in the general, we would have lost by a lot more than VP Harris did, and we wouldn't have those (albeit meager) institutional protections.

I don't have an answer. I think a lot of mistakes were made, and a lot of people are writing books.

Sec. Clinton did the same thing... all part of the coping process for those people with power.

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Hilary Clinton has stated that Biden is to blame for the election of Trump and that his legacy will never recover. [View all] Pisces Jun 16 OP

ehhh NJCher Jun 16 #1

Yes and also his slow milk toast Attorney General. gordianot Jun 16 #38

Indeed. Both Biden and his AG should have gone after Individual One Vogon_Glory Jun 16 #56

Sorry. The election of Drumpf is due to Musk. Ritabert Jun 16 #2

Thank you! raccoon Jun 16 #4

We should stop pretending we would have won and blame who did it. Ritabert Jun 16 #11

Wont happen. Or the reasons that contributed to it. Callie1979 Jun 17 #103

Not after one year in office. The time to announce he was going to follow his pre-election stance & state he would be a Celerity Jun 16 #73

Really not helpful, Hillary! Chasstev365 Jun 16 #3

Bill's approval was very high in 2000. Gore's mistake was not embracing Clinton's record Buckeyeblue Jun 16 #49

Gore could very well have won the presidency Mme. Defarge Jun 16 #82

It shouldn't have been close. W was idiot Buckeyeblue Jun 17 #96

The Repubs embrace idiots. They always have. StarryNite Jun 17 #109

Hear! Hear! yellow dahlia Jun 17 #155

We know he did win it if votes had been counted because questionseverything Jun 21 #193

GOP controlled SCOTUS was the problem DemocracyForever Jun 20 #189

And if she didn't have that stupid email server EdmondDantes_ Jun 16 #61

Exactly PatSeg Jun 16 #67

Or she could have let Huma go before the disaster with the laptop struck. LisaL Jun 16 #72

many people miss that - wiener's involvement cost Hillary the election samsingh Jun 16 #77

Joe Biden had one main job - in my opinion samsingh Jun 16 #78

Somebody talked Joe into clinging to the incumbency. Frasier Balzov Jun 17 #141

Al Gore did win in 2000, but the supremes took it away. Chemical Bill Jun 16 #79

I totally agree with you DemocracyForever Jun 20 #190

What is this? Pile on Biden month? choie Jun 16 #5

And she was the first one to lose to Trump. LisaL Jun 16 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Nixie Jun 16 #55

She demonstrated her lack of political intuition La Coliniere Jun 16 #59

It wasn't the debates. mr715 Jun 16 #63

+1 Shrek Jun 17 #118

And had she done so, the reichwing machine would have been howling niyad Jun 17 #89

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Put the League of Women Voters back in charge of the debates. they did a ... marble falls Jun 17 #171

YES for LWV!!! niyad Jun 19 #180

Bill did a good job. He balanced the budget..... Melon Jun 16 #80

Congress passed it first MichMan Jun 17 #95

Of course. But it's still excellent andunder Clinton presidency. It's reflected in the rankings by Gallup and others. Melon Jun 17 #97

Just pointing out that congress plays an equal, if not bigger, role in the budget and deficits than the president does. MichMan Jun 17 #121

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Al Gore broke the tie mr715 Jun 17 #122

One of the best economic periods in American history DemocracyForever Jun 20 #187

He balanced the budget by making welfare nearly impossible to get, leaving more people homeless and starving questionseverything Jun 17 #130

This is not accurate DemocracyForever Jun 20 #186

In my central Illinois county we went from over 500 cases of cash assistance questionseverything Jun 20 #191

The fact s that it was one of the best economic periods in history DemocracyForever Jun 21 #192

No, the new requirement ended assistance as we knew it questionseverything Monday #194

20 million new jobs were created under Clinton DemocracyForever Tuesday #196

New jobs were created under clinton and welfare programs were gutted under Clinton questionseverything Tuesday #197

You're the one who is hypocritical DemocracyForever Wednesday #198

Bill was vastly more successful than Biden as POTUS. BannonsLiver Jun 17 #135

Biden did a lot fast that got erased just as quickly. mr715 Jun 17 #143

The economy was good under Clinton AZProgressive Jun 17 #147

Blame for Afghanistan should go to Trump mr715 Jun 17 #158

I agree AZProgressive Jun 17 #159

Well, the first time Hillary was the one who lost to Trump. LisaL Jun 16 #6

Yep.... and maybe if she'd spent a little more time in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, Jack Valentino Jun 16 #13

Bill Clinton was baggage to Hillary in 2016 Ponietz Jun 16 #43

She won the popular vote by over three million. The electoral college niyad Jun 17 #88

Not while it benefits Republicans SocialDemocrat61 Jun 17 #114

exactly!!! niyad Jun 17 #116

But that's a different campaign Shrek Jun 17 #119

No, it is not. The stupid electoral college is not some disconnected entity niyad Jun 17 #120

how many millions of biden voters stayed home on harris? one recalls hearing it was multi millions... msongs Jun 16 #7

How many Biden voters voted Trump? Not a small number. Callie1979 Jun 17 #104

My speculation is this: Mister Ed Jun 16 #9

I was going on this assumption when he ran again RockCreek Jun 16 #12

There was time for a full primary obamanut2012 Jun 16 #14

+1 for your last paragraph. sheshe2 Jun 16 #45

It seems like a lot of Dems are blaming President Biden................... Lovie777 Jun 16 #10

The 77,303,568 morons who voted for Trump in 2024 are to blame. sop Jun 16 #15

Post removed Post removed Jun 16 #24

Of course you are going commando sarisataka Jun 16 #30

Assuming that fleon skum and company did not fuck with the election, niyad Jun 17 #90

This will hurt more than it helps. (Is that iodized salt, Hillary, or just plain sea salt flakes?) QueerDuck Jun 16 #16

a surprising, and rather asinine?, statement - stopdiggin Jun 16 #20

Meh. It'll take a number of years before we hear a really clean analysis of the Trump era struggle4progress Jun 16 #17

I will agree. We won't really know for years but having said that, I will say Hillary's perspective is usually right Deuxcents Jun 16 #33

And Hillary was to blame for losing to Trump. Grim Chieftain Jun 16 #18

Exactly Emile Jun 18 #179

And 77 million idiots are off the hook. Turbineguy Jun 16 #19

I, too, agree with Sec. Clinton mr715 Jun 16 #21

because after we had a true PRIMARY - the Democrat would have sailed on to easy victory .... stopdiggin Jun 16 #22

What's the case to be made that having a normal primary process would have been worse than what happened? BannonsLiver Jun 17 #137

it needs to be worse? or is a loss still counted a loss? stopdiggin Jun 17 #153

There are flavors of loss. mr715 Jun 17 #157

true. but saying nothing toward the post that I addressed. stopdiggin Jun 17 #160

It is conceivable to me... mr715 Jun 17 #163

I am (marginally) of the opinion that Biden would have probably done as well stopdiggin Jun 17 #164

It is what makes history digestible. mr715 Jun 17 #165

in THAT we arrive at complete accord - - - - - - - - - -(nt)- stopdiggin Jun 17 #173

For once I disagree with Hillary MustLoveBeagles Jun 16 #23

If the voters don't show up to support you, they must not be inspired by what you have to offer. MichMan Jun 17 #170

I voted to protect democracy from a tyrant MustLoveBeagles Jun 17 #172

Hillary lost first to Trump Raine Jun 16 #25

She, of all people, should know better karynnj Jun 16 #26

The real shame is on the party for turning its back on Biden DavidDvorkin Jun 16 #27

Agreed Grim Chieftain Jun 16 #39

Some of us remember 2016. Sneederbunk Jun 16 #28

And some of us remember the mistakes that were made after the 2022 mid terms. BannonsLiver Jun 17 #139

I too agree with her, strongly. tman Jun 16 #29

Hill lost to him on her only try ... Cosmocat Jun 16 #34

Ironically, I wanted Biden to run in 2016. Clinton is still correct here though. tman Jun 16 #41

Hillary obamanut2012 Jun 17 #106

I'll just say this - I have seen presidents who - immediately after they leave office - are beloved by and remain the Midwestern Democrat Jun 16 #75

Biden's ultimate legacy is being transitional fujiyamasan Jun 17 #113

Time will see if his accomplishments all ended with Trump karynnj Jun 17 #128

Not sure where I would place Bill Clinton karynnj Jun 17 #125

Whoa, now THAT is so disappointing PatSeg Jun 16 #31

Not for nothing, I like Hill, but Cosmocat Jun 16 #32

I think Clinton's actual statement was a reasonable assessment delisen Jun 16 #35

Biden never promised to not run for a second term Mysterian Jun 16 #71

It was mostly implied that he would be Transitional fujiyamasan Jun 17 #107

So you speak for the whole electorate now? Mysterian Jun 17 #110

"I'm all in!" TheProle Jun 16 #36

Didn't she lose to him first? BlueTsunami2018 Jun 16 #37

She did, but it was a completely different scenario MichMan Jun 16 #51

You can come up with all kind of reasons, but she still lost. LisaL Jun 16 #65

I smell deliberate misinformation behind this story designed to weaken and splinter the Democrats. Botany Jun 16 #40

. . . Sympthsical Jun 16 #42

Biden should have Matthew28 Jun 16 #44

I Think You Meant 2023, Right? ProfessorGAC Jun 16 #48

Not at all interested in kacekwl Jun 16 #46

He may have been one part of the reason but he wasn't the sole reason. The media didn't help one bit. chowder66 Jun 16 #47

Not joining this circular firing squad. tavernier Jun 16 #50

After the convention the election was ours to lose sarisataka Jun 16 #52

People like David Axelrod were warning that Kamala had simply gotten something like the kind of temporary, unearned Midwestern Democrat Jun 17 #93

What she actually said Cirsium Jun 16 #53

Thanks. Lies get halfway around the world before truth has a chance to get its pants on nilram Jun 17 #154

Here is the thing: had Joe decided to not run the debate between him and Trump would have never happened Buckeyeblue Jun 16 #54

Or, alternatively, he could aggressively prosecute Trump mr715 Jun 16 #58

Agreed. That too. He could have done both. Buckeyeblue Jun 16 #68

She's not wrong in that. And she is also one of the last people who should be opening their mouth on the subject, RockRaven Jun 16 #57

I just watched the entire interview and this writer's take doesn't quite add up to what she exactly said Quiet Em Jun 16 #60

Hillary did NOT say MorbidButterflyTat Jun 16 #62

This writer's take was bullshit. Quiet Em Jun 16 #64

What really sucks is how many people just take for granted that this bullshit is accurate MorbidButterflyTat Jun 17 #140

Agreed Cirsium Jun 17 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author Nixie Jun 17 #174

Guardian article is Sound Bite journalism. Clickbait. delisen Jun 16 #66

No, I will tell you who is to blame videohead5 Jun 16 #69

. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 16 #70

This is probably like regurgitated pudding. nt BootinUp Jun 16 #74

I support Democrats (Joe) even if Hillary doesn't. gab13by13 Jun 16 #76

I've heard that pattern before Diseases Jun 17 #85

If I get banned for this... Diseases Jun 17 #86

What flavour pizza do you like? niyad Jun 17 #91

Double double Diseases Jun 17 #92

Sounds serious Torchlight Jun 17 #101

An Orwellian pizza designed by the Ministry of Plenty Abolishinist Jun 17 #142

Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote Jun 17 #123

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 17 #161

It was perception of her frailties just like Biden. She was basically getting carried on stairs by secret service. Melon Jun 16 #81

Does she mean this election too CNYHarris Jun 17 #83

Joe Biden was not responsible except not exposing trump CNYHarris Jun 17 #84

I don't care, that was rude as hell for her to say! Unrepentant Fenian Jun 17 #87

sigh.... FormerOstrich Jun 17 #94

At the end of the day, Americans didn't rate Biden as an affective president Melon Jun 17 #98

It will be interesting to see how this changes over time fujiyamasan Jun 17 #108

I agree that trump will move lower. Melon Jun 17 #111

Sadly, even if his post presidency approval improves, it's very unlikely to be within his lifetime. fujiyamasan Jun 17 #115

I think you mean effective. LtTx Jun 17 #132

Trump is an affective president. mr715 Jun 17 #144

Yes- He absolutely is! LtTx Jun 17 #148

He's why I need pills. mr715 Jun 17 #150

Kinda stating the obvious at this point fujiyamasan Jun 17 #99

It's a non-issue to me at this point in the game Torchlight Jun 17 #100

I wonder if she has been tested for cognitive abilities recently raccoon Jun 17 #102

It is corporate ownership of the media Easterncedar Jun 17 #105

Hillary Clinton is entitled to her opinion SocialDemocrat61 Jun 17 #112

Post removed Post removed Jun 17 #176

N.O. Clouds Passing Jun 17 #117

Her 'generation' of Dems are why we are where we are TxGuitar Jun 17 #126

Coulda woulda shoulda! Magical thinking, trying to change the path Walleye Jun 17 #127

The Onion... mr715 Jun 17 #152

Not productive. Not at this point... OC375 Jun 17 #129

Among the factors Dems could control, I agree that Joe's decision to run for a 2nd term is the biggest reason we lost Martin Eden Jun 17 #131

She's rehashing because Jill Biden is selling a book... mr715 Jun 17 #145

I agree with her OnionPatch Jun 17 #133

Especially when part of your appeal is humility and honesty mr715 Jun 17 #146

It's hard to disagree. BannonsLiver Jun 17 #134

My response to HRC would be ABC123Easy Jun 17 #136

I saw the NY Times piece about this, and found myself very disappointed with Hillary . . . markpkessinger Jun 17 #138

The media sabotaged the election. Initech Jun 17 #149

I really though Harris ran a hell of a campaign. mr715 Jun 17 #151

Easy to say in hindsight, but looking back there were too many unforced errors MichMan Jun 17 #168

WIth the benefit of hindsight, I agree entirely. mr715 Jun 17 #169

Hello, Hillary? How Do You Account For TRUMP'S FIRST TERM?? 🤔🧐...... ColoringFool Jun 17 #156

And what's your excuse for 2016 Hillary? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 17 #162

VOTERS are to blame. For one, B.See Jun 17 #166

First time I can remember, I think Hillery is wrong. Either way that bell has been rung and we need to be moving on ... marble falls Jun 17 #167

Oh good... Yet another let's blame Dems thread Ohio Joe Jun 17 #175

Nobody should care what Hills thinks about Biden duckworth969 Jun 18 #177

So is Hillary Clinton mr715 Jun 19 #185

It's Bash Democrats time. This time coming from Hillary. Emile Jun 18 #178

Exactly. What does she hope to accomplish bringing this up now? Grim Chieftain Jun 19 #183

I wonder how awkward this made yesterday's gathering of the ex-presidents? Buckeyeblue Jun 19 #181

she's absolutely correct ecstatic Jun 19 #182

I think she has a point, but - JustKay Jun 19 #184

Bush/Florida 2000 created Trump DemocracyForever Jun 20 #188

That isn't what she said. Sparkly Monday #195