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Violet_Crumble

(36,468 posts)
67. Just a correction here...
Sat Jun 27, 2026, 04:53 AM
Yesterday

I don't consider this a rabbit hole, expulsions weren't one-sided. Tens of thousands of Palestinians were expelled from what is now Israel, but some don't seem to care because it doesn't suit their narrative. It would have been far less messy if people had been allowed to stay where their homes were and on the land they were connected to.

The founders of Israel? I'm assuming yr talking about Ben-Gurion? He was a realist and worked purely from a political stance because Zionism was and still is a political ideology. While he wasn't particularly religious, he did need to get the religious types onside when Israel was created. He had to make some concessions to Orthodox Jews, which is why things like marriage, divorce etc are controlled by religious law and not civil law. Don't quote me on that last bit, as it's been a long time since I read about it. Which means while the founders weren't particularly religious, they catered to the Orthodox and were very into expanding territory, which is why Israel's borders weren't defined when the state was created.

Oh, no. I just realised I used the term Zionism! I got chided just recently from someone in another thread who informed me that studying Israel and Zionism when I was at uni was proof that there's a disproportionate fixation with Zionism, AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!!!! Unfortunately they never returned to answer my question about how much discussion of Israel is acceptable, so I'm still not clear on what the red line in the sand is, not that I really give a shit...

Yes, I agree with you, Many antisemitic people use "Zionism" as an excuse, though I find the attempts to label all discussion of Zionism as antisemitic is merely an attempt to silence criticism of Israel. And let's be real. I've seen the antisemitic ones on FB and it's not hard to miss. I encountered someone who didn't seem capable of saying 'Israel'. He'd call it the 'Zionist entity' or 'Zionist regime'. The way he said it made it very clear there was something boiling away underneath that was really ugly. Along the same lines, blaming Zionists for all the ills in the world is another giveaway, as well as comparing Israel to Nazi Germany.

What's not accurate is what some in this thread have a habit of doing, which is labelling any and all mentions of Zionism and AIPAC and dog knows how many other keywords as being antisemitic. My rule of thumb is that people who aren't Jewish are Zionists, and AIPAC isn't a Jewish organisation. Insisting on conflating them with Jews is just playing into antisemites hands. Have you noticed some who do this have no qualms about attacking J-Street or Jewish Voice for Peace? Because the issue isn't whether an organisation is Jewish, it's about whether the organisation 110% falls in line and defends everything Israel does.

And because I don't think there's much going on in this thread, I'll just finish up by pointing out that AIPAC is a horrible, hardline group, and anyone who claims to support Israel should get behind J-Street instead. And also, Zohran Mandami is a superhero and I suspect some of the attacks on him come from him not only being a socialist, but a Muslim one

https://jstreet.org/

Recommendations

5 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So, is AIPAC scared, or angry? Fiendish Thingy Friday #1
Both. mountain grammy Friday #2
Yes mr715 Friday #9
whatever.... mike_c Friday #3
Blaming Jewish or Israeli people for the Eko Friday #4
he was criticizing AIPAC and it's dark money PACs hookaleft Friday #7
Logic? AloeVera Friday #36
Thanks AloeVera! Eko Friday #38
And speaking of logic... AloeVera Friday #39
Fuck this racist claptrap Sympthsical Friday #55
"Say no to AIPAC" is not aimed at just Jews, it's aimed at everyone muriel_volestrangler 21 hrs ago #72
Stop. Sympthsical 20 hrs ago #74
Stop what? muriel_volestrangler 20 hrs ago #77
Stop running interference for these antisemitic tropes Sympthsical 20 hrs ago #79
I really do not see people blaming Jews on DU muriel_volestrangler 19 hrs ago #83
And your thoughts on Sympthsical 18 hrs ago #87
People should not say "If the Jews would just do X, then people wouldn't hate them!" muriel_volestrangler 17 hrs ago #91
It's literally the post I replied to Sympthsical 17 hrs ago #92
No, it's not. The post you replied to says muriel_volestrangler 17 hrs ago #94
Wow Sympthsical 17 hrs ago #95
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. AloeVera 9 hrs ago #138
You have it now. AloeVera 15 hrs ago #107
What Israel is doing in Lebanon and GAZA is genocide. AND I will vote in primaries for the candidate who does not Demsrule86 16 hrs ago #99
Your response is beyond the pale. AloeVera 15 hrs ago #105
When people peddle in collective responsibility for hate received by an ethnic group Sympthsical 15 hrs ago #109
Show me where I assigned "collective responsibility". AloeVera 15 hrs ago #113
I can't make it any simpler than I have. Sympthsical 14 hrs ago #114
Sympthsical - you lumped me in with the assholes that attacked that Jewish man in the park. AloeVera 12 hrs ago #126
Everything he said was true. hookaleft Friday #5
Who is "they?" Mossfern Friday #57
Netanyahu should be attacked lame54 Friday #6
He should be brought to the Hague for Crimes against humanity. lebanese people and GAZA Demsrule86 16 hrs ago #100
You surely feel the same about the leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. DavidDvorkin 13 hrs ago #116
LMAO fuck you, AIPAC n/t aocommunalpunch Friday #8
The popular new brand of lipstick. Behind the Aegis Friday #10
So, for you, the problem is not the ideology of AIPAC. It's just that it's not 100% successful. Intractable Friday #12
Strawman much? Behind the Aegis Friday #13
Oh, how is it not the case? I see no argument here. Just a vacuous statement. Intractable Friday #14
Lipstick on a pig Behind the Aegis Friday #15
Post removed Post removed Friday #18
You are accusing a DUer of lying? yardwork 18 hrs ago #86
Your supposed "truth" is irrelevant and is a feeble distraction from the main point. Intractable Friday #19
BtA doesn't "lie" and it's not "feeble Or irrelevant. Cha Friday #46
You keep pointing at who is funding it when many people other than Jewish people fund it also. Eko Friday #25
According to Protocols... sarisataka Friday #23
Rothchild, Soros, Zionist, AIPAC ... lapucelle Friday #29
I think you misunderstood this poster. yardwork Friday #51
I've been reading his posts for years now. There's no misunderstanding from either of us. Intractable Friday #52
Here Is All the Money AIPAC Spent on the 2024 Elections hookaleft Friday #17
There may be some apples and oranges mixed in here, but..... DFW 23 hrs ago #68
Mahalo, BtA.. It's no big mystery why Cha Friday #44
Post removed Post removed 15 hrs ago #102
Thank you! Bookmarking. betsuni Yesterday #62
Sometime, probably soon. The rabbis will learn the US ain't taking it so much anymore. 31j20b3 Friday #11
82% of NY jews... Boo1 Friday #21
Wisconsin has many fewer Jewish identifiers 31j20b3 Friday #22
I dont agree that anti-zionism is antisemitic. Eko Friday #26
Including Palestinians? Boo1 Friday #32
Here. Eko Friday #37
What's the difference in having a right Boo1 Friday #41
inherent Eko Friday #48
That goes for Muslim countries too? Mossfern Yesterday #58
Yes Eko Yesterday #63
So you support a One World government? Mossfern 21 hrs ago #73
Nowhere did I say that. Eko 18 hrs ago #89
Is it possible Eko Yesterday #65
Sure Mossfern 21 hrs ago #69
It is not merely the belief that Jewish people have a homeland Eko 18 hrs ago #88
Palestine was not a nation Mossfern 18 hrs ago #90
Muslims are persecuted in Israel and what has been done in GAZA is a disgrace. Demsrule86 15 hrs ago #106
Jews are murdered in Palestine Mossfern 15 hrs ago #110
I'm never said Palestine was a nation did I? Eko 13 hrs ago #119
So ...... Mossfern 12 hrs ago #121
No, that is not exactly what I am saying. Eko 12 hrs ago #124
I do have a reason Mossfern 12 hrs ago #125
Here is Israel's first prime minister David Ben-Gurion's thoughts on it. Eko 9 hrs ago #137
One could argue Mossfern 8 hrs ago #140
Ah yes, and everyone agrees the colonists in the US were great people because they kicked out Eko 4 hrs ago #147
I think so. Joinfortmill 20 hrs ago #78
Just a correction here... Violet_Crumble Yesterday #67
I am well aware of the expulsion of Palestinians as well as their leaving voluntarily during the 1948 war. Mossfern 21 hrs ago #71
700,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled, never allowed to return to this day. AloeVera 11 hrs ago #130
And this? Mossfern 10 hrs ago #133
You know about cause and effect... AloeVera 10 hrs ago #135
You forget the dhimmi status of Jewish people in Arab countries Mossfern 7 hrs ago #142
Can't reach those laudable goals without the political will of both Israelis and Americans. AloeVera 6 hrs ago #145
My bad Mossfern 5 hrs ago #146
US Gentiles have no problem with the Jewish population. In fact we love and welcome you to the Democratic Party hookaleft Friday #33
Are the palestinians Boo1 Friday #34
Post removed Post removed Friday #35
If the Palestinians didn't want Hamas Boo1 Friday #40
Because Palestinians that go against Hamas are killed in front of their families. Intractable 8 hrs ago #141
Well, if someone could move into your home at any time Bettie 19 hrs ago #81
Rabbis in the US are "Sowing" the actions of Israel sarisataka Friday #24
Mamdani accused AIPAC of pouring "millions of dark-money dollars" into efforts to turn the public against itself. Nanjeanne Friday #16
+1 leftstreet Friday #43
Exact quotes. LAS14 Friday #20
This is the most complete transcript of his speech I can find muriel_volestrangler 20 hrs ago #75
What fuels antisemitism is people like them conflating Jews and Israel/AIPAC RockRaven Friday #27
Couldn't agree more and said so in Post # 36. nt AloeVera Friday #42
"Jews are to blame for antisemitism." Boo1 Friday #45
Netanyahu is a monster. AloeVera Friday #47
Netanyahu and the actions of his government Eko Friday #49
+1 dalton99a 21 hrs ago #70
This message was self-deleted by its author Ponietz 19 hrs ago #80
I'm not Jewish, but I have Jewish relatives... Joinfortmill Friday #28
There are elections planned later this year question everything Friday #30
AIPAC goal is throwing money at centrists. Emile Friday #31
not just centrist and conservative Dems but also hard RWer MAGAt rethugs, including 2020 seditionists and traitors Celerity Yesterday #59
Having not given it any thought - woah on supporting those Republicans! TY 4 info. electric_blue68 15 hrs ago #112
And what do the Catholic priests say? Iggo Friday #50
Bibi makes the propaganda run on time Ponietz Friday #53
So it's only OK to call Muslims monsters? CivicGrief Friday #54
Ii haven't heard anyone here say anything of the sort. Mossfern Yesterday #61
Just (One Person) Wondering... wyn borkins Friday #56
The I/P forum tries hard to host these kinds of discussions, but in reality the independent forums hlthe2b 16 hrs ago #96
Understood :: And Thank You (hlthe2b) For Your Response (n/t) wyn borkins 16 hrs ago #97
There will be no peace until a fair 2 multigraincracker Yesterday #60
Israel doesn't want this...but you are right. Demsrule86 15 hrs ago #101
My take for what it is worth. sheshe2 Yesterday #64
I was surprised this happened. I hope he learns, too. betsuni Yesterday #66
Israel is involved in Genocide. They must be called out. And a fair number of those Demsrule86 15 hrs ago #104
Not a very smart statement on his part. MineralMan 20 hrs ago #76
Religion is the most divisive thing Bettie 19 hrs ago #82
100% Agree! MineralMan 19 hrs ago #84
My husband and I talk sometimes about Bettie 19 hrs ago #85
Congratulations on your 20,000 post milestone. Now on to your next niyad 17 hrs ago #93
I agree.... Demsrule86 15 hrs ago #108
He didn't, however, mention religion muriel_volestrangler 14 hrs ago #115
Israel is involved in war crimes in GAZA and Lebanon...murdering kids. Demsrule86 16 hrs ago #98
...Hundreds of rabbis voted for Mamdani... mr715 15 hrs ago #103
Well it hurts feelings when a message that's cherished and been pushed all your life 31j20b3 15 hrs ago #111
Huh? Mossfern 13 hrs ago #117
Yep, that's the sentiment I was trying to represent 31j20b3 13 hrs ago #118
AIPAC Mossfern 12 hrs ago #120
Well In My Opinion AIPAC looked very involved in pushing Bidens crash 31j20b3 12 hrs ago #122
That is one huge stretch! Mossfern 12 hrs ago #127
I'm asserting that AIPAC would support any POLICY of Netanyahu 31j20b3 11 hrs ago #131
What does that have to do with Biden? Mossfern 7 hrs ago #143
AIPAC was one of three groups he listed as the "monsters" muriel_volestrangler 12 hrs ago #123
I read psot #75 Mossfern 11 hrs ago #128
Here: muriel_volestrangler 11 hrs ago #129
Surely you see Mossfern 10 hrs ago #132
Not all lobbying groups are eqqual 31j20b3 10 hrs ago #134
I'm an artist Mossfern 8 hrs ago #139
It's about groups putting money into the NY races. Yes, it had a wide spread. muriel_volestrangler 1 hr ago #148
The day had better be coming when AIPAC, and every other lobby organization is restricted from the money they can lees1975 10 hrs ago #136
We lost that right when we lost Citizens United. yardwork 7 hrs ago #144
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