Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ElboRuum

(4,717 posts)
6. I'll go a step further.
Sat Aug 4, 2012, 08:56 AM
Aug 2012

"I think this deliberate muddying of what should be clear concepts like consent is atrocious."

I posit that this deception and obfuscation is the philosophical linchpin of the movement. By keeping the concept of consent infinitely situational, amorphous, and open to interpretation, one can ALWAYS claim that consent was not given, and by corollary, one can NEVER claim that consent was given. One could argue that the reverse is also true, but I believe that one would be wrong in this case, since consent is a positive assertion, action only follows on basis of that assertion. In other words, the reply is always by default negative unless explicitly given in the positive.

Is it not an oft-spoken position amongst the more radical feminists that women cannot legitimately consent to sex in a "patriarchy"? If consent is essentially whatever it is at a moment in time and for whatever purposes it is being discussed, the concept of consent can always be narrowed or morphed to create a negative result since the burden of proof is on the claimant who asserts consent can be given. Such rhetorical tactics would be laid bare for their deceptive nature if a definition of consent existed in that philosophical realm to which such rhetoric could be compared.

If radical feminism were ever to admit to a specific definition of consent, one which lays down in specific terms what a positive affirmation of consent constitutes, all of its primary contentions would self-obliterate.

totally wired to the moon, imagine hating yourself this much loli phabay Aug 2012 #1
That's why they feel the need to hate men even more 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #11
On the use of "radfem" Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author eek MD Aug 2012 #3
Yeah, seems to me a concrete and unequivocal concept of consent is the obvious starting point. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #4
Gail Dines... ElboRuum Aug 2012 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #13
bravo lord of the geeks ;) loli phabay Aug 2012 #17
More "In Their Own Words" from Maggie McNeill Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #5
I'll go a step further. ElboRuum Aug 2012 #6
What do you believe radical feminists are attempting to gain by that strategy? MadrasT Aug 2012 #8
Not to dodge the question... ElboRuum Aug 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #15
Much of that seems possible to me. MadrasT Aug 2012 #27
Their religion is based on a very few basic tenents 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #14
Don't want to deny anything, Warren. MadrasT Aug 2012 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #29
Also: That's an illuminating question, which one could also ask about radical anti-choicers. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #16
It's a get out of (culpability) free card. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2012 #22
I'm not sure I see a "win" being the point any more than... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #35
There must be some type of condition that causes people to come up with and believe this warped shit Major Nikon Aug 2012 #10
Psychotic. caseymoz Aug 2012 #18
To answer your last question 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #19
Truly, the astonishing stupidity of these statements, in terms of evolutionary hifiguy Aug 2012 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #21
The theory of evolution was written by a penis-wielding member of the patriarchy 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #23
The sad thing is that I can see that argument being propounded hifiguy Aug 2012 #24
Strict adherence to any religion forces you to believe silly things from time to time 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #25
True dat. hifiguy Aug 2012 #26
Or politics, or philosophy, or economics, or art... or pretty much anything. LanternWaste May 2013 #55
I don't know of too many economists who think the Flintstones really happened Major Nikon May 2013 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #57
Hey Warren.. pass the Ranch dressing please... opiate69 May 2013 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #59
Hehe.. just sayin that salad upthread is a little on the dry side, is all opiate69 May 2013 #60
They believe that the most natural and traditional form of sex is rape? MaineMen Aug 2012 #30
They don't believe it's natural, and yeah, Dworkin and MacKinnon would qualify the statements Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #31
"Twisty"'s rant, there, is a real piece of work. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #32
From the comments: 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #33
Well then. Now there's someone who just about manages to hifiguy Aug 2012 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #36
So..... opiate69 Apr 2013 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #38
To borrow a phrase.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #39
I read that book from cover to cover Major Nikon Apr 2013 #40
I had to read a lot of Dworkin and MacKinnon to hifiguy Apr 2013 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #44
Hey Warren, good to chat again. hifiguy Apr 2013 #45
Hey Hifi! Good to see you again! opiate69 Apr 2013 #46
They're ultimately well-poisoners hifiguy Apr 2013 #47
confronting a group like this can be difficult to impossible Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2013 #53
Wise words, Walter... opiate69 Apr 2013 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #48
I am a long-time animation geek. hifiguy Apr 2013 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #50
I've been listening to Can since 1975. hifiguy Apr 2013 #51
MacKinnon likely has a lot more in common with Phyliss Shafley ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #52
I doubt it. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #67
Her understanding of evolution and mammalian biology hifiguy Apr 2013 #43
She was troubled (to say the least) but not, by my definition, "evil." nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #61
I know she's a lightning rod but Camille Paglia hifiguy Apr 2013 #41
Crazy, crazy people all over this crazy world... What can ya do? nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #62
You can call them out for being crazy, for one thing Major Nikon Jun 2013 #63
I agree with you. I just question characterizing anyone on DU that way. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #64
I think very few on DU believe it Major Nikon Jun 2013 #65
This stuff, in August of last year mind you, didn't just materialize out of the vacuum. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #66
I shake my evil phallus at this thread!! Nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #69
You'll shoot your eye out, kid! name not needed Jun 2013 #70
I do too. More or less. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #71
you wouldn't refrescanos Jul 2013 #72
It's more like this... Major Nikon Jul 2013 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #74
You had reason to suspect the Space Patriarchy would be any different than the terrestrial one? Major Nikon Jul 2013 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #76
But, what if she gets the Big "O" while some guy is muff-diving? Is that OK? Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #77
I don't know. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #78
Wherever you go, there you are. name not needed Mar 2014 #79
Edited Subject Header Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #80
I'm not defending Dworkin or her acolytes. name not needed Mar 2014 #81
Gotcha. Sorry, people keep trying to drag me into this silly fucking argument. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #82
Well someone somewhere along the line paraphrased her words, name not needed Mar 2014 #83
Sex is fine, as long as no erections are involved. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #84
Yeah, but it's hard to keep up what their position on her is ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2014 #85
whew Doctor_J Apr 2014 #86
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»"rape and PIV* are a...»Reply #6